© 2008 Eric Margolis

Archives > December 18, 2006

THE LAST LATIN DINOSAUR

MIAMI - Here in the world’s second largest Cuban city after Havana, the fiercely anti-Castro Cuban exile community is eagerly anticipating the death of their bete noire, Cuba’s `Maximo leader,’ Fidel Castro. He just turned 80 but was too ill to attend his gala birthday bash.

The death last week of Chile’s former dictator, Gen. Augusto Pinochet, leaves the gravely ailing Castro as Latin America’s last surviving Cold War dinosaur. The widely demonized Pinochet was the bete noire of leftists everywhere, the dictator they loved to hate. However, Pinochet left Chile with a democratic government and Latin America’s most vibrant economy. By contrast, Fidel Castro will leave behind a dreary, threadbare totalitarian state that has become a land that time forgot.

Gen. Pinochet was condemned as a brutal tyrant for killing some 2,300 leftists and jailing thousands more. His brutal tactics occurred during a time of virtual civil war when Latin Marxists were waging a campaign of assassinations, murders and kidnappings.

Now compare Pinochet’s `crimes’ to today’s US-backed military dictators like Egypt’s Mubarak and Pakistan’s Musharraf. Their regimes have killed and tortured considerably more opponents

than did Pinochet, yet they are hailed as valuable and honored US allies. One is reminded of Henry Kissinger’s quip that it’s more dangerous being an ally than an enemy of the USA. Washington has a long, ignoble record of abandoning or turning on old allies.

Castro, who is hospitalized, handed over power to his 75-year old brother, Raul. But as I reported on my last trip to Havana, there will probably be no major political changes in Cuba until Fidel leaves the scene. He is Cuba’s national father figure, who, in spite of many mistakes and severe repression, is still regarded with deep respect, affection and pride by many of his people.

But as much as many may admire Fidel as a macho leader who stood up to the Yankee `gringos’ after a century of bullying and exploitation, and who brought them high standards of medicine and education, we should also recall that Castro had a darker side. Recently-opened KGB files and statements by former high Soviet officials have revealed that during the 1962 Cuban missile crisis, Castro begged Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev to launch nuclear-armed missiles against the United States. The Kremlin wisely refused Castro’s crazy request.

KGB archives also document extensive Soviet intelligence links with and support for Chile’s late Marxist president, the by now sainted Salvador Allende, who was overthrown by Gen. Pinochet. The Soviets planned to turn Marxist Chile into a second Cuba and major base for subversion in Latin and Central America.

Cuba may be a rusty Marxist relic, but it’s important to recall that it has always been the most advanced, sophisticated and cultured nation in the West Indies. Havana is older than New York City. I still vividly recall glittering pre-Castro Havana, and sitting at its famed `Floridita Bar’ with my parents and Ernest Hemingway, who inscribed a book to me, `To Eric, the painter, Havana, 1952.’ I liked drawing in those days.

In recent weeks, Raul Castro has offered to open talks with Washington, which has kept Cuba under a punishing embargo since the 1950’s. Washington should seize this opportunity to end its utterly daft sanctions regime that has bankrupted Cuba, and move to normalize relations. If Raul really wants to begin serious talks with Washington, he should immediately begin releasing all of Cuba’s political prisoners and cease arresting citizens who call for democracy and free speech. Washington could reciprocate by closing down its Guantanamo gulag and immediately easing sanctions.

Engagement with Cuba is urgent. Fidel’s death may set off internal power struggles in Cuba’s security forces and military or ignite social turmoil. A small army of Miami Cubans is ready to descend on their former homeland, among them numerous wealthy businessmen who see themselves as Cuba’s next leader – not necessarily democratic ones.

Cuba’s long-suffering people deserve to escape poverty and totalitarian rule. But they also need to retain the dignity and social advances they achieved under Castro’s regime – his sole accomplishment in half a century. It would be a serious mistake for Washington to treat post-Castro Cuba like just another banana republic. Or for the US to try to brusquely impose its dictates on prickly Cubans. Diplomatic finesse and tact are called for.

Unfortunately, the Bush-Cheney Administration has so far rebuffed Raul Castro’s overtures. Miami’s large, noisy Cuban community votes Republican and is dead set against political engagement with Cuba until the Castros are gone. There even seems to be a US law on the books to this effect.

Just as Ronald Reagan famously called for the hated Berlin Wall to be torn down, it’s now time for another ugly Cold War relic, the US embargo of Cuba, to be scrapped.

Copyright Eric S. Margolis 2006


Posted by Eric Margolis on December 18, 2006 11:11 AM
Comments:

I really hope Castro dies soon.

Posted by Bino at December 18, 2006 12:19 PM

Margolis, you should be ashamed of yourself, excusing the actions of Pinochet, even putting the word “crimes” in quotes and misquoting the accepted murder figure by more than a 1,000. Disgusting.

The Marxists, who apparently deserved their torture and death according to you, were fighting for their democracy. Most were non-violent and rounded up immediately after the junta for their ideas. The vast amount of terror of the period (bombings, rapes, murder, torture) was conducted by the right and their CIA allies.

Pinochet’s economic (GDP) performance was below the reigon’s average, despite the massive US help it got, and his policies resulted in the most unequal society in the Americas. Much of the positive indicators was a result of the (Marxist)copper nationalization of Allende that Pinochet did not overturn.

Cuba was hit hard by the collapse of the USSR, but is making great strides lately with 8-10% growth the last 2 years. It’s people do not have much but are do not suffer the indignities most other Latin/Carribean poor face (access to water, sewer, education, health, culture, segreatation, crime, drugs, desperation, etc.). Ending the embargo would be the biggest boon to helping Cuba’s people. But they should not be pressured to change regimes if the people do not want to (recent Gallop polling has shown the majority support their leaders and government).

Posted by leftside at December 18, 2006 01:54 PM

Chatman - I left 5 unanswered questions for you in the last post. SVP….

Leftside - I completely agree. Cuba is a wonderful place today (by and large), although there is dire need for economic reform such as homeownership and so on. But though generally poor, all the people I met, including in the countryside, are in good health. I saw old people with all of their teeth in good condition. Kids get a litre of fresh milk daily, school uniforms, and free quality education. This is more than the US poor get.

Sure Cubans are poor (except for those getting cash from emigres) but they can and do take pride in their hard-won independence. Cuba is one of the very few Caribbean countries that can boast having prolific authentic grass roots culture, in music and dance and so on. The US embargo is cruel and inexcusable. Go Jeb Go. Please. Many Americans are with Jimmy Carter in condemning the embargo and he has even visited Cuba. He is a man who has the courage of his convictions.

Posted by shazam at December 18, 2006 02:07 PM

I have a picture of me sitting on the tank (featured in a square in Havanaa) that Fidel captained to repel the Bay of Pigs invasion.

Eric, you did not go far enough with the closure of Gitmo. The US should return that part of Cuban territory to Cuba.

Go to Cuba now folks, before McDonalds, Coke, Wendy’s, Pepsi and American music and dollars and Americans swarm the place.

Posted by shazam at December 18, 2006 02:15 PM

Bino - most Cubans would not agree with you.

Posted by shazam at December 18, 2006 02:17 PM

Rampart, caring people in Cuba, some of whom are foreign nationals, are trying to restore the Hemmingway estate there, including his boat, etc. and have sought assistance from US fans of Hemmingway. Apparently they raised funds but were not allowed to transfer them because, in the opinion of a US bureacrat moron, the funds would provide “economic development” to Cuba.

When it comes to Cuba, Americans are idiots and bastards. Geeze, they lost a war in Vietnam and now have free trade with the communists there. So its a matter of US domestic politics. I find it sad and strange that Cubans in Florida, most of whom are families from the Bastita-Mafioso era, are so vindictive that they begrudge well-being to those they left behind. But of course they only begrudge losing their property, in many cases ill-gotten.

Posted by shazam at December 18, 2006 02:25 PM

Bino:

Your retort is duly noted.

It is in the nature of a Scorpion to sting.
It is in the nature of a Dog to bite.

You are restricted by your nature!

Posted by oldfan at December 18, 2006 02:41 PM

Shazam – if they did agree with me out loud, they’d be in jail or worse. Did you miss that whole part in Eric’s “article” that talked about arresting citizens who call for democracy and free speech?

The quicker he dies, the quicker the opportunity for the Cuba’s “long-suffering people” to “escape poverty and totalitarian rule”.

Die baby. Die.

Posted by Bino at December 18, 2006 02:42 PM

Elvis, we won”t let you quit.

Bino, may we have your post-Fidel scenario please. Your view is that just kill a leader and all problems are solved, kind of like what Junior and Pinochet for that matter thought.

Posted by shazam at December 18, 2006 02:58 PM

I agree with Eric that Cuba’s communist or socialist system is a bit outdated and some reforms to it would be desirable (like including political freedoms and some economical reforms) but I can never agree with Eric’s “right-wing dictators” appologetic talk and his hatred for all that’s left and socialist. Every socialist is not Stalin Eric as well as everything socialist is not gulag.

The “glittering” pre-Casto Cuba that you recall was a US mafia ruled banana republic, a haven for prostitution , gambling and exploatation of the local “inslaved” population. In pre-Castro Cuba blacks had the same rights (or less) as they did in Alabama, so you are definitelly not talking from their point of view. Iliterracy was running in the high 90%s so that the people had no chance in life whatsoever. Pre-Casto Cuba was heavily deforested and if it wasn’t for Castro it would look like Haiti right now.
And how do you define poverty in the first place? Is it not beeing able to buy cr*p in wal-mart? Is it not beeing able to get yourself poisoned and obese in McDonalds? Is Wal-mart, McDonalds, Enron what you would call progress?

The thing is that (IMHO) Cubans are much bettter now than they were under Batista and much better than most other countries in Latin America. What I would call poverty is not beeing able to walk the streets for fear (like in so many other countries, as well as in many US cities) at night and not beeing able to have a “normal” life (and under “normal” I would say to satisfy the basic human needs”: security, shelter, food, clean water, education, a job, social interaction, healthcare). Everything else is desirable, but not necessary. Just look at other Latin American countries, in Nicaragua and Columbia you don’t know if and when you will be killed and you have to suck up to some local criminals in order to survive. Look at all the favelas in Brasil.

You also said that Pinoche killed all those marxists since he was practically in war with them. Well, for that matter, I believe Castro was (and still is) much longer in war with US then Pinoche ever was with marxists. What about the US “operation Mongoose” and the campain of sabotage, bombings, killings, airplane bombings and other kinds of terrorism? How many times did they try to assasinate Casto and how many times Pinoche?

That said…I do not believe communisam (per se) works and I would much rather prefer some type of democracy (Scandinavian style, not US ‘fake’ one) and I would much rather live in my beautifull and boring Canada than in Cuba. But if I had to choose, I would much rather live “an average guy’s life” in Cuba than in Nicaragua (or be poor in US). The problem is that I doubt that Cubans are aware of this and that some problems might be awaiting them in the long run.

Posted by FromNowhere at December 18, 2006 03:02 PM

Yes, Shazam - that is exactly my view - kill a leader, everything solved!

End of the embargo. Free elections. Free those in jail for speaking out.

Sounds like a good start to me.

Posted by Bino at December 18, 2006 03:05 PM

I think you stirred up the hornet’s nest this time EM.
This might be one of those rare occasions that I am not in agreement with you. Pinochet was a despot and a brute and I am very surprised that you handled him with gloves.

Leftside and FromNowhere stole much of my thunder and good for them for being quick of the mark.

Marxism would never have reared its head in many parts of the Americas; it was a reactionary ideology that found a foothold because of the greedy Americans and their corrupt ways.

Pre-Castro Cuba was a whorehouse and a playground for the American elite while the majority of the masses suffered in dire poverty, it’s amazing that Americans haven’t changed a bit even today.

Pinochet garnered very little emotion in the streets of Chile, the sentiments were indicative that there was not much love for him among the people.
If a measure of a man is the legacy he leaves behind, I can bet that the streets of Havana will be soaked with tears when Castro passes on to the great yonder.

Posted by oldfan at December 18, 2006 04:34 PM

Oldfan,
I feel left out of your stolen-thunder list.

The US occupation of the extreme east end of Cuba is an ongoing irritant that can best be resolved by an American exit.

Along with most thinking others, I have to say, Eric, you were soft on the fascist Pino and hard on Fidel. Oldfan is quite right to say Pino left virtually no one crying. In fact his death pissed off a lot of people because it deprived them of their chance of seeing justice done. The CIA coup there was akin to the one in Iran that installed the Shah and deprived Iranians of their destiny for the horrid time he was in power.

We need a world court to try the powers that order the overthrow of democratic governments, as well as their main foot soldiers. I am given to understand that “just following orders” is, as of post-WW2, no longer an excuse to commit diabolical deeds. Hmm, Hamas is an elected government. That means Junior and the Israeli leadership would go to jail too.

Posted by shazam at December 18, 2006 04:52 PM

Shazam:

Stolen-thunder lists are nothing, it is that very precious commodity called the yearning for “Justice” that I feel honoured to share with you.

Posted by oldfan at December 18, 2006 05:09 PM

“Washington has a long, ignoble record of abandoning or turning on old allies.”
This is the untold story of Iraq. Any ideas Eric?

Posted by doppleganger at December 18, 2006 06:13 PM

Far from being exceptionally hard on Fidel, I’m (pleasantly) surprised to see Eric so fair, even generous. Fidel is a throwback, no doubt, but his accomplishments (and those of the Cuban people) are real and admirable. I’ve always thought it ridiculous to compare life in Cuba to life in Florida/America. Rather, Cuba should be compared to countries like Haiti or Nicaragua, American clients with abysmal standards of living. In this light, Cuba really does seem a (socialist) paradise.

(By the way, when Eric writes his memoirs, I’ll be sure to buy a copy.)

The exiled Cubans in Florida deserve comparison with American Zionist Jews. These two groups have done more to corrupt/pervert American foreign policy than any others.

Pinochet too was a throwback, a wannabe Hitler/Mussolini/Franco. He and Franco both deserved the same fate as Hitler and Mussolini.

(And, finally, speaking of throwbacks: what a surprise to see that Rampart couldn’t keep silent for one week, promises notwithstanding. Is this guy lonely, or what?)

Posted by hyperbolus at December 18, 2006 09:38 PM

Oldfan - Thank you. I am touched to be acknowledged as a member of the Brotherhood of the Thirst for Justice. Tres cool.

Eric, have a mohito (purported to have been invented by Hemmingway) and a Romeo et Julieta cigar, and muse about how wonderful Cuba could have been without Batista, the mafia, and cruel US landowners who treated and kept the population as serfs. In other words, a Cuba that had no need of a Fidel or Che. Sweet….

Well, there was a US puppet by the name of Batista, the Mafia, absentee corporate and individual plantation landowners, and a Fidel and Che. The last two saved the people from indentured slavery. I agree it is waaay past time for the US to let Cuba move ahead rather than keep it ground down in a time warp because they are sore losers. So, what is the insde scoop - any Demos willing to say “Forget Florida” and do the right thing?

Hey, I thought Americans weren’t allowed to travel there?!

Posted by shazam at December 18, 2006 09:41 PM

I think we need to remember that the revolution in Cuba didn’t occur without reason. Despite how we might feel about Castro and his regime, things were a a great deal worse under Batista for the vast majority of Cuban people. Castro might well have erred in some ways but anyone who has visited the island will know, it is posed to become something rather extraordinary and I doubt such would have been possible under the colonial rule of pre-revolution times. While it’s people deserve much better, it’s a stretch to assume American cultural and economic assimilation provide the path to a guilded future. Castro succeeded in large part because of American colonial despotism and I have a hard time believing a return to colonial rule will amount to anything beyond the settling of old grudges, still fermenting in the minds of ex-pats in Miami.

Posted by dano at December 18, 2006 11:03 PM

Peace:

I have no idea what you are trying to say: “What a great Idea why don’t you go to India and shoot all your racist leaders”

I’m not Indian, so they aren’t my leaders. Even if they were, I wouldn’t shoot someone for being racist. I’d laugh at them and ridicule them, but not shoot them. This is the second post in a row from you, directed at me, which really makes very little sense. The first stated, for reasons I can comprehend, that Canada was “a garbage cane” and this one seems to suggest I’m Indian and long to shoot someone.

Rampart –You’ve posted 5 times now (yes, 20% of the comments are yours) in a thread you apparently were boycotting. Classic. This board is your own personal crack. Mine is Heineken and strippers. To each their own.

Oldfan - Re: “I can bet that the streets of Havana will be soaked with tears when Castro passes”

Probably few tears shed by the political dissidents rotting away in jails though. Oh, sorry – this is none of your concern. After all, you callously stated that, “The people of the world need to be left alone to sort out their own problems”. Even those sitting in jail for the crime of questioning authority, I suppose.

Posted by Bino at December 19, 2006 10:45 AM

Great post, Peace. Resorting to calling me a dog-f*cker in another language. I can see now why I’m often slammed for adding no value to the board – it takes away from all the quality posts like yours above.

Posted by Bino at December 19, 2006 11:45 AM

Chatman, to reiterate from the last post:

“Thank you, sincerely, for giving us the benefit of your research and perspective on the Holocaust. I think we all can agree that the scale was one that is beyond compare and that we ought to get past comparing the Holocaust to what the Zionists are doing today in Palestine. I would ask you, however, to consider acknowledging some parallels, keeping in mind that doing so is not equating the current scale of destruction to the Palestinian fabric is on the same scale as that wrought upon the non-Germans under their occupation.

First, and without saying the Holocaust is equated to the cruelty Zionists are imposing on Palestinians, the fundamentalist Zionist settlers, and probably many Zionists as well, ARE as racist against Palestinians and probably Arabs in general as the Germans were towards non-Germans. This is borne out most blatantly by their well-documented policies in the West Bank, and within Israel, for example.

Second, the Israeli acquisition of property owned by Palestinians — land grabs, house destruction without rebuilding permits, disallowing building, forced “sales”, expulsions, destroyed livelihoods, prevention of marriage of Palestinians inside Israel to those outside, etc. are systematic. Assassinations and collective murders and punishments fall short of the Nazi factory-style executions, but are also systematic.

The quote about the anti-tank ditches has echoes of the Berlin and Israeli Wall.

I ask you some questions:
1. Are the Israeli policies intended to eliminate the Palestinian presence in what they regard as Sumaria and Judea?
2. Is there approach systematic?
3. Are the expansionist Zionists who run the show as racist as were the Nazis?
4. Why are the Jews not speaking out against Israeli policies, in fact why do they continue to pour money into what even Jimmy Carter has come to call an apartheid state?
5. So in the end, are we not talking about scale and extent, the purpose being the same, namely emptying the “homeland” of “alien others”?

I am NOT trying to goad you into equating the two forms of racist discrimination and dispossession. I agree the magnitudes and malevolance are on completely different sets of scales. I would, however, like to benefit from your condierably informed views on the apparent similarities in the systemic processes of these two historical events. Can you say that Israeli actions are tamed perhaps by international opinion enabled through a free press? What would they do absent public opinion, a rein that Hitler didn’t have to check him? Remember the Irgun, Stern Gang, etc. when they had free rein? And the armed fanatics that roam Jerusalem today (in packs like all cowards) terrorizing Palestinians into leaving?

Posters, sorry to hijack this article on Castro and Cuba but there is this unresolved matter.

Rampart, where? Whatcha talkin’ about?

Posted by shazam at December 19, 2006 12:32 PM

Peace:

This is for you, be at peace. Aspire for the higher do not go in the gutter you will only get filthy.

http://www.tue.nl/esk/rumi/rheart.htm

Posted by oldfan at December 19, 2006 01:04 PM

I don’t know why I have to keep posting this:
Once again, Bino is not only entitled to his opinions, but you should be thanking him for stirring up controversy. There are plenty of love and light sites where you can go and feel all warm and fuzzy and where no one disagrees with you.

Bino is attempting to push your buttons to make you reveal your true self, your emotional, unguarded self - and he’s proving that most of you are completely off the handle, and don’t have opinions of your own.

I may not agree with much of what Bino says, but at least he’s not towing a party line. He’s stepping into this forum and writing things that cause you all to have irrational emotional outbursts.

a) What the hell do you care what he thinks?
b) Do you think he’s the only person who feels this way? Are you a moron?
c) If you can’t deal with real human beings and real opinions, then you have no idea about what’s actually going on in the world. You are taking the israeli approach of bombing the sh*t out of him to make him shut up. He’s doing an excellent job of making you all look like retards.
d) Does this comment fit in with neocon or liberal thinking?: “I regret to waste my time on you. The man with ULTI KOPRI or should I say GALI KA KUTA.” or “May the spirit of Chief Sitting Bull give you syphilis.”

You guys are really not demonstrating your enlightenment - you are merely showing us how quickly your knee reacts to being tapped by a reflexometer.

Bino - keep it up, stir the pot! You’re really making a lot of people think!

No sacred cows, no bullsh*t.

Tovy

Posted by Tovy at December 19, 2006 01:23 PM

I’d hate to be a fan of Eric’s from India and visit his site and have to see this crap. Eric must be proud of your posts, Peace and Rampart. I’m sure he is thrilled racists have hijacked his board. And FWIW, it is easy enough to google a word (even one that isn’t in English!) and piece the meaning together.

Regardless, I’d like to commend you two on the great, great spirit of racism and intolerance you’ve created! Eric should shut this place down now. Racists have ruined the place.

Posted by Bino at December 19, 2006 02:44 PM

Rampart and Peace,

I can not believe that you two are letting Bino achieve his ultimate goal - shutting down this blog. You are so quick to enter the gutter as Oldfan has suggested, that this whole board is getting slimed. It will be a shame if Bino has his way and gets this blog shut down because there is a lot of excellent information and opinions passed (including yours) for those of us who are interested.

I suggest to take the high road, accept Tovy’s comments that there are people like Bino who live in the real world, and express your rapier-like wit in constructive and entertaining manner.

Regards,

Posted by guesswho at December 19, 2006 03:05 PM

Re: And THAT is the game of this Bino/Kalasewer person To force us to attack him so that he can make a case for shutting down the board.

G-d forbid an adult have an scrap of self-control. But you’re most comfortable when playing the victim.

Re: “Btw, I have said so on many occasions… when he was posting as “Shofar”, he was using broken Urdu phrases (like a Hindi speaker trying to speak Urdu). Those couldn’t have come from Google.”

Really, you are insane. I’ve only ever, EVER posted here under one name – Bino. If there is a moderator, and I’m guess there isn’t if your racist comments stay on this board, you can ask him/her if my ip address has ever been linked to another handle. Ultimately though, I don’t care. If you need to believe I’m multiple people, fine. Whatever helps you cope.

Again, you are delusional and have the self-control of a 3-year old. Watching you melt down is both shocking and hysterical. That wasn’t my mission, but it’s a fringe benefit that is bringing many smiles to my face.

Regarding Eric “having no fans in India”, so what? You do realize that he has many fans of all backgrounds here in Canada, don’t you? Or is your racist world that black and white?

Lastly, I guess we should all be really, really grateful that you haven’t flexed your mental muscle as much as you can. I’m laughing as I type this:

“You do realize I have the skill, the drive, and the craziness to make you all shut up with my sheer output alone, yes? It is not hard at all for me.
Realize I am not doing that.”

Oh thank you, thank you, thank you kind Rampart for not shutting us all up - it isn’t hard for you.

I hope everyone sees you now for the cretin you are: Racist and intolerant and now threatening the entire board.

Posted by Bino at December 19, 2006 03:31 PM

guesswho:

You are exactly right. I have seen other blogs close for similar reasons and I am all but certain that Mr. Margolis will shut this board down if things keep going the way they are.

Posted by Weary at December 19, 2006 03:35 PM

Leftside,

You said “… Marxists fighting for their Democracy…” I think you may need to re-examine exactly what a ‘Marxist’ is. Of course, the true ‘idealist for democracy’ would gladly let Marxists use democracy to take democracy away from us. F-ing Useful Idiots.

NEED TO REDUCE AGGRAVATION?
I’ve taken to looking at the poster’s name before reading their post. It has saved me considerable aggravation. There will always be idiots on the Internet that will upset you – so why annoy yourself with them? It’s a paraphrasing of “Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me” except substitute “fool” with “aggravate”. Seriously, do you ranting fools really think you’re going to accomplish anything, like, reform a bigoted moron?

DCanuck
Feeling Belligerent Today

Posted by D. Canuck at December 19, 2006 03:46 PM

Rampart:

I know you are capable, but please, I implore you to stop as you already are aware of the intent of the muckrakers.

This site is important beyond our own personal grievances. I noticed several new posters here with EM’s this week’s post titled “The Last Latin Lover”. It was wonderful to see the eloquence of their thoughts and many taking EM to task on his views on Pinochet.

We need more and newer people to read this forum so that information can be disseminated. Each one of us can arrive at our own conclusions, but at least because of this forum different points of views can be aired.

I for one don’t want this board to be shut down. So, PLEASE as a personal favour to me don’t fall for it, you have ample enough ability to deal your blows.
Furthermore I enjoy reading you and have a fondness for your style of writing.

Posted by oldfan at December 19, 2006 04:08 PM

On Cuba,

As a Canadian I’ve always been perplexed by the American undying, unwavering hatred of Cuba. When you watch a movie like ’13 Days’ about the Cuban Missile Crisis and think about JFK and Sputnik… these are like days from pre-history. I can’t believe how long ago it was. And still America’s hatred has never fluctuated… and not once has Cuba overthrown America’s democracy.

America’s continued hatred of Cuba makes no sense whatsoever, unless you consider it a petty rebuke for the failed Bay of Pigs invasion as well as generally thumbing your nose at Washington. Those “defenders of freedom” really don’t like that.

No matter what administration sits in the White House, the overall voice of America rings steady and true. And in matters like this, that’s not a good thing.

When Castro visits Canada he’s treated like visiting royalty. The icing on the cake for us Canadians is seeing how it annoys the Americans. For all the American assertions against Castro, what has he really done against America? (I’m talking ACTUAL actions not pseudo-crap like “he undermined our Christian values blah, blah, blah…”)

DCanuck

Posted by D. Canuck at December 19, 2006 04:09 PM

oooops! I meant to say ” The Last Latin Dino…. Ha ha ha, just a bit of relief :-)

Posted by oldfan at December 19, 2006 04:16 PM

Bino, I like your sarcasm. Well said and well placed. You do need to go deeper into your analysis than “I really hope Castro dies soon” though to make a meaningful contribution.

Rampart, You add fuel to the fire instead of letting it fade away.
DCanuck - right on as usual.
Oldfan - I am a fan.
Tovy is alright too.
Merry Xmas one and all - Bino included.

From a survey reported in Time magazine: 19% of Americans believe God favours them in international affairs.

I wonder what the proportion would be in Israel?

These respondants are the truly scary people, aka fundys, the people who resort to “truthiness” and violence to achieve their objectives.

Posted by shazam at December 19, 2006 04:31 PM

Dear Shazam:

Regarding your belief that, “You do need to go deeper into your analysis than “I really hope Castro dies soon” though to make a meaningful contribution”, I tried, as I’ll demonstrate below. Sadly, I was shouted down by racists.

To recap:

I said, “I hope he dies” and you said that most Cubans would disagree.

Knowing how valued freedom of speech is on this forum, I stated that the political dissidents rotting away in Cuban jails would not be shedding too many tears when he croaks.

I also stated, citing quotes from Eric’s article, that “The quicker he dies, the quicker the opportunity for the Cuba’s ‘long-suffering people’ to ‘escape poverty and totalitarian rule’.

I mean, the quicker the Castro regime (“totalitarian rule”) ends, the quicker sanctions are lifted, the quicker dissidents are release from jail for their views, the quicker they can have free and fair elections and choose their own fate, etc, etc.

Granted, that is a hopeful scenario, but I’m a real optimist like that.

You then stated, “Bino, may we have your post-Fidel scenario please. Your view is that just kill a leader and all problems are solved, kind of like what Junior and Pinochet for that matter thought.”

I should have realized at that point that there was no point having any sort of discussion with you. However I stated, “Yes, Shazam - that is exactly my view - kill a leader, everything solved! End of the embargo. Free elections. Free those in jail for speaking out. Sounds like a good start to me.”

It was at that point that Peace and Rampart began their racist tirades at my expense while everyone else sat quietly.

I mean, what if I was Indian? My g-d - not one of you people have the nads to call him out for that? I thought you were mostly dovey, lefty, handholding types. Wrong! It’s only racism when it suits your debate (ie – Israel is racist, Rampart is not). That you’d all just sit on your hands is pathetic and disgusting.

I’m wrong – Tovy was, to his credit, the only person here not such a chickensh*t they’d not even confront a racist in cyber-f*ucking-space! He was right – we don’t agree on much – but at least I know one person here has a spine.

Anyhow, it doesn’t take much to see that, by stating my desire for his death, I cannot see any hope for that country until he is removed from power. Got it?

Any respect I had for Castro was gone the minute he sided with that pathetic Iranian resolution introduced to the Human Rights commission damning the treatment of Canadian aboriginal peoples (sorry Rampart – I don’t have a good racist name for them) and women in prison. That was disgusting, and the last straw for me.

In summary, die Fidel. The sooner, the better. I don’t believe in heaven, hell or karma, so I’m comfy wishing death on, what Eric calls, “totalitarian rule’

Posted by Bino at December 19, 2006 05:07 PM

Rampart:

Would you care to translate the message to Peace, or is it too incendiary.

Posted by oldfan at December 19, 2006 05:58 PM

Quit whining?

Yoyu really think your racist ass is wiggling itself out of this like that?

Quit telling people how to feel, you bigoted ass! Quit bullying people and then telling them to take it easy. Quit attacking people and then tell them to stop “whining” and take some f*cking responsibility for what you write.

You have proven yourself - repeatedly - to be a racist nut. Delusions of mental grandeur juxtaposed with the most incredible, obvious insecurities. Don’t believe me? Here is how you are rolling, roughly 24 hours in to a new Margolis article about Cuba and your self-imposed ban:

Posted by Rampart at December 18, 2006 02:11 PM
Posted by Rampart at December 18, 2006 02:45 PM
Posted by Rampart at December 18, 2006 02:54 PM
Posted by Rampart at December 18, 2006 03:18 PM
Posted by Rampart at December 19, 2006 12:56 AM
Posted by Rampart at December 19, 2006 03:05 PM
Posted by Rampart at December 19, 2006 03:07 PM
Posted by Rampart at December 19, 2006 03:15 PM
Posted by Rampart at December 19, 2006 03:26 PM
Posted by Rampart at December 19, 2006 03:38 PM
Posted by Rampart at December 19, 2006 04:02 PM
Posted by Rampart at December 19, 2006 04:15 PM
Posted by Rampart at December 19, 2006 04:34 PM
Posted by Rampart at December 19, 2006 05:05 PM
Posted by Rampart at December 19, 2006 05:35 PM

Two of those posts are about Cuba. Half of those posts are just lame, overtly racist attacks on me.

Others include such “insights” as:

“You do realize I have the skill, the drive, and the craziness to make you all shut up with my sheer output alone, yes? It is not hard at all for me. Realize I am not doing that.”

Ugh.

I might be the least popular person here - my politics certainly are - but I was raised to be man enough to call a racist out when I see one.

Those with noses up your ass while you rail on hysterically, saying I am killing the board, are the worst sort of hypocrites and lickspittle.

Posted by Bino at December 19, 2006 06:48 PM

It seems to me that if the bulk of your comments have nothing whatsoever to do with issues raised by Eric’s weekly analysis, or are devoted to personal rather than political matters, you shouldn’t bother sharing your opinions here. But by the same token, some of you need to build up thicker skins.

Posted by hyperbolus at December 19, 2006 07:30 PM

“Those with noses up your ass while you rail on hysterically, saying I am killing the board, are the worst sort of hypocrites and lickspittle.”

You’re right of course. You’re hardly an instigator, but people like to tar you with that brush. They like to use the same brush to tar anyone who backs you, but I’ll take the chance.

I do hope, however, that you will continue to contribute, and that your detractors can learn to deal with your comments without resorting to senseless India and Hindu bashing. While I realize everyone is entitled to their opinions, I honestly think making those kinds of generalizations are harmful to the continuing existence of the board, and completely unhelpful toward conducting reasonable discussion.

I would comment on the article, but I really know nothing about Cuba, so I will address the previous topic, as Shazam already discussed. See below…

Posted by chatman at December 19, 2006 09:32 PM

“First, and without saying the Holocaust is equated to the cruelty Zionists are imposing on Palestinians, the fundamentalist Zionist settlers, and probably many Zionists as well, ARE as racist against Palestinians…”

Sounds about right to me. If you want to draw a historical parallel, Apartheid might be apt. Do I think that such racism is a precursor to an effort to exterminate the Palestinian people? I’m not so sure…

“Second, the Israeli acquisition of property owned by Palestinians … are systematic. Assassinations … fall short of the Nazi factory-style executions, but are also systematic.”

Are they dedicated to the extermination or marginalization of the Palestinian people? I agree that all such acts are based in politically motivated racism. But what the Nazis sought to do was annihilate people who did not objectively threaten them (though they certainly worked hard to portray them as a threat), while the Israelis seek intimidate and dominate a relatively non-threatening (though generally well armed) group of people. Collective assassinations, reprehensible as they are, do not elevate themselves to the level of the Einsatzgruppe, or Dachau.
“The quote about the anti-tank ditches has echoes of the Berlin and Israeli Wall.”

Not the reason I posted it, and I don’t see the parallel. Berlin and Isreali walls were both monolithic instruments designed to separate ‘us’ from ‘them.’ They were symbols; one of the Cold War, the other of apartheid. The quote about the ditch illustrates more concisely the complete and casual disregard for the lives of non-Germans. Put another way, if you want to equate what the Israelis do to what the Nazis would do… the Nazis would not bother with any pretense of targeting… if they suspected there was resistance, they would raze the entire section, shoot all of its inhabitants, take 10 more as hostages, and if there was any further resistance, shoot the 10 hostages (replacing them with 10 more.)

What the Israelis do is constantly arrest people, poorly target their assassinations, and behave in ways that, while criminally negligent to the Palestinian people, fall somewhat short of a desire to exterminate every last one of them.

“1. Are the Israeli policies intended to eliminate the Palestinian presence in what they regard as Sumaria and Judea?”

I don’t feel qualified to answer that. I would need to do more research.


”2. Is there approach systematic?
”

Mostly.

“3. Are the expansionist Zionists who run the show as racist as were the Nazis?”

I don’t think so, though I am susceptible to a reasonable attempt to convince me otherwise…


”4. Why are the Jews not speaking out against Israeli policies, in fact why do they continue to pour money into what even Jimmy Carter has come to call an apartheid state?”

Because they have believed the Zionist propaganda that Israel is a homeland for Jews, and that it is under threat to its very existence. Such claims are, of course, nonsense, but the Zionists spin a good yarn, and like most governments whose power is rooted in fear, can seize upon any pretext to solidify this perception.

While the Nazis were able to manipulate the ‘victim’ tendency in a similar way, their racial policies to a large degree existed outside of public politics. You should check out some of the swill that came out German presses in the 30’s and 40’s; they indoctrinated elementary age children to think that Jews and other non-Germans were inferior; they did so not by painting them as a threat to Germany’s existence, but through blatant racial stereotyping. Isolate, humiliate, separate, and destroy.

I would be surprised to see an Israeli schoolbook depicting a Palestinian as an ogrish crone…

I am NOT trying to goad you into equating the two forms of racist discrimination and dispossession. I agree the magnitudes and malevolance are on completely different sets of scales.

Then we agree on the fundamental semantic point, and just about everything else.

“Can you say that Israeli actions are tamed perhaps by international opinion enabled through a free press? What would they do absent public opinion, a rein that Hitler didn’t have to check him?”

The Israelis are faced with a free press, and also with the reality that much of what they do depends on support from the outside. If they were doing what the Nazis did, even OUR government might become concerned… though that’s a BIG maybe. Nonetheless, their approach to regional dominance is more calculated and subtle than any the Nazis employed in the exterminations of ‘undesirables.’ But I am not sure that the Zionists are motivated by a desire to exterminate the Palestinians. They may want their ‘Lebensraum,’ but I wonder if they are prepared to slaughter every last one of them to get it.

I sometimes wonder if Likudniks believe their own paranoid fantasy that Israel may be ‘pushed into the sea.’

Posted by chatman at December 20, 2006 03:02 AM

Bino said:

“I mean, the quicker the Castro regime (“totalitarian rule”) ends, the quicker sanctions are lifted, the quicker dissidents are release from jail for their views, the quicker they can have free and fair elections and choose their own fate, etc, etc.”

and

“Yes, Shazam - that is exactly my view - kill a leader, everything solved! End of the embargo. Free elections. Free those in jail for speaking out. Sounds like a good start to me.”

Castro has no control over the embargo placed by the U.S. government. The embargo can end tomorrow if the U.S. government decided to.

Cubans chose to take their own fate in their hands when they they revolted against the U.S. supported Batista government, yet the U.S. government doesn’t seem inclined to let Cubans follow their own destiny. If the U.S. was dedicated to such noble principles, their government wouldn’t have supported Batista in the first place, they wouldn’t have placed an embargo on Cuba and they wouldn’t be meddling in every corner of the world.

“Free and fair elections” is a nice generalization, but if the U.S. is a model, then any elections in Cuba after Castro’s demise will not be “free and fair”.

As to killing a leader, your analogy could be extended. For example, “kill Bush, Iraq problem solved, American soldiers go home, Iraqis are liberated to follow their own destiny”. Do you really think killing will solve anything?

D. Canuck:

You are wondering why the U.S. is so anal about Cuba. Cuba is only 90 miles off the coast of Florida, yet the U.S. has no political control over Cuba. It’s like having thorn in your foot.

The idea of “manifest destiny” has never died in the U.S., and Cuba is the only North American country not controlled by U.S. interests. Canada is essentially an economic vassal, most of our valuable assets being owned by U.S. interests. Same with Mexico. Only Cuba is independent. That must make the control freaks in Washington just boil.

Posted by Weary at December 20, 2006 09:22 AM

Re: “Cubans chose to take their own fate in their hands when they they revolted against the U.S. supported Batista government, yet the U.S. government doesn’t seem inclined to let Cubans follow their own destiny. If the U.S. was dedicated to such noble principles, their government wouldn’t have supported Batista in the first place, they wouldn’t have placed an embargo on Cuba and they wouldn’t be meddling in every corner of the world”

From Wiki:
The 1952 election was a three-way race. Roberto Agramonte of the Ortodoxos party led in all the polls, followed by Dr. Aurelio Hevia of the Auténtico party, and running a distant third was Batista, who was seeking a return to office. When it became apparent that Batista had no chance of winning, he staged a coup on 10 March 1952 and held power with the backing of a nationalist section of the army and of the Communists, as a “provisional president” for the next two years. In 1954, under pressure from the U.S., he agreed to elections. The Partido Auténtico put forward ex-President Grau as their candidate, but he withdrew amid allegations that Batista was rigging the elections in advance. Batista could now claim to be an elected President. His regime was marked by severe corruption and poverty. Batista’s police force was well-known for their harsh tactics and violence against the population.

In 1956 a party of rebels, mostly idealistic young nationalists, including Fidel Castro, landed in a boat from Mexico and tried to start an armed resistance movement in the Sierra Maestra Mountains (Castro had gone to Mexico after being released from prison, where he was serving a sentence for his part in a 1953 rebel attack on the Moncada Barracks in Santiago de Cuba). Batista’s forces killed most of the rebels, but enough survived to maintain a low-level insurgency in the mountains. In response, Batista made the mistake of launching a campaign of repression against the opposition, which only served to increase support for the insurgency.

Through 1957 and 1958, opposition to Batista grew, among the middle class and the students, in the Catholic Church and in the rural areas.

The United States government imposed an arms embargo on the Cuban government on March 14, 1958. The urban trade unions, however, were under the control of either Communists or the mafia, both strong supporters (for different reasons) of Batista’s regime and attempts to organise general strikes against Batista always failed. By late 1958, the rebels had succeeded in breaking out of the Sierra Maestra and launched a general insurrection, joined by hundreds of students and others fleeing Batista’s crackdown on dissent in the cities.

———-

I think saying Castro has no control over the embargo is a stretch. Well, maybe at this point it is accurate but over the course of the last 50 years he had ample control and opportunity. WRT elections, would a UN certified process satisfy your requirements?

FWIW, I do not agree with the embargo, but I think the only way it gets lifted at this point is regime change, which will only come by way of Castro’s exit from this world. Call me a realist.

Posted by Bino at December 20, 2006 09:49 AM

Hi gang! Nice to be back. Some great reading, though 61 posts is way too many to go through - I need time to toss in my 2 cents worth. I’ve been reading EM since the 1980s and have never agreed with his position on Latin America. Leftist and Nowhere expressed things best so I’ll leave the Pinochet adolation alone. Anyone who hasn’t, should read Thomas Hauser’s book “Missing” or, if you don’t have the time, see the Costa-Gavras movie.

I see what Bino is saying about Castro dying but I don’t think that alone will end the embargo. Cuban exiles will demand nothing less than a guarantee of government before they support lifting the embargo. So on the free and fair elections point, how much money will the Cuban exiles pour into Cuba to buy any election?

Nevertheless this is the 21st century and the rules have changed. I do not think Cuba should be required to hold elections and I personally hope they resist that Siren call. After all, even if the elections are free and fair, if the Cubans elect the wrong people then the embargo will continue(see Palestinians). It will be Nicaragua 1990 all over again as Cubans will be given the choice of voting for a pro-American candidate or voting for continued economic isolation. I guess things are improving, after all Nicaraguans voted with a loaded gun pointed at their heads.

My point is: no people more strongly oppose democracy then the elites who run this world, including our politicians and media. So Bino is ahead of the curve as murdering other leaders is how the West plans to dominate the developing world in the near future.

If I may rethink the loaded gun comment, there probably will be a loaded gun pointed at Cuban voters too. After all we’ve allowed the rules to change by reelecting war criminals like Blair and Bush. Men who believe violence is justified in toppling an undesireable government and opening up a new market for exploitation. And they don’t care how much blood gets spilt in the process because it will never be their blood or their friends blood.

So it is inevitable they’ll open Cuba up one way or another. They’ll talk democracy first - because it sounds good to people who believe what they say - however, if democracy is not coming fast enough or if Cubans elect the wrong people then we’ll get the Milosevic Mashing Maneouver or the Saddam Sleeper or any other play that’ll charge up the WWF crowd(isn’t that the level our media has reduced world affairs to?)

Posted by Paul Whiteside at December 20, 2006 10:36 AM

Regarding a different kind of politics: it is reassuring for me to see I was not to blame for last week’s fuss - as it’s been happening all over again without me!

I do get the impression some posters take things way too seriously and personalize issues or character assassinate - as if they were trying out for a position on Karl Rove’s team.

From what I can tell, Bino is our one card carrying Right-winger, thus he should be treated with respect, not attacked for his views. What’s the point of having a message board if we all say the same thing but in different ways? Right-wingers should be admired for standing tall on what is a sinking ship these days. You shouldn’t be trying to run them off the board. I know it works both ways and no one posting in anger is innocent, myself included last week.

Funny to see all the lefties here when EM himself is a right winger. How else could you get into the Toronto Sun? Well sexual advertising would get you in but I’d rather Eric stick to applauding Pinochet then go there.

I have tried to find Right Wing boards to post on but don’t seem to have had any luck. Not with Rush Limbaugh or Fox or others of their type. Are there no Right Wing boards around? Makes me wonder. These people don’t seem to want to hear what others have to say. I guess Rush just wants to tell people how to think and leave it at that.

So everyone be nice so we don’t lose this message board.

Posted by Paul Whiteside at December 20, 2006 10:48 AM

Paul, a good post, but I am disappointed your see things so black and white.

I am the boards token “card carrying Right-winger” only as it relates to foreign policy, and even then I will fluctuate based on the specifics. I’m not a card-carrying anything! I’ve never once voted for the conservatives here in Canada. I am a liberal/libertarian on all things social, for example. Support gay marriage, legalized drugs and legalized prostitution, oppose the death penalty, want the taxation of religious establishments – does that sound like a “card carrying Right-winger”?

OK, on to the topic at hand, you state: “I see what Bino is saying about Castro dying but I don’t think that alone will end the embargo.”

Agreed.

Re: “Bino is ahead of the curve as murdering other leaders is how the West plans to dominate the developing world in the near future”

Again, I’m do not condone murder.

LOL at your Toronto Sun/sexual advertising line.

Lastly, if you’re looking for a board that is very, very right leaning try this: littlegreenfootballs.com and work from there.

Posted by Bino at December 20, 2006 11:33 AM

Thank you so much Paul for such a good point (in your post: Posted by Paul Whiteside at December 20, 2006 10:36 AM). You have said what I wanted to add to my previous post.

Elections are bought! Maybe not always and maybe not everywhere, but they are bought (and god love the stupid people on this planet, but they do fall for it). If Cuba allowed free and multi-party elections, as much as it would be good for them in some other “ideal” world, in this world where we live the US would poor millions and billions of dollars to bring in their own guy…and we all know what would happen then. Cuba can’t compete with US financially. If the same socialist guard was reelected, nothing would change, the embargo would stay. If not, we would be looking into another Latin American problem where you can’t walk the streets.

If you don’t believe that elections are bought just take a look at the recent (or any) US elections and how much money was spent on both sides in the election campain (and how much of it was hidden). Why? Why is money spent in election campains? Why do corporations and individuals donate money to election campains? The politically correct answer would be to “spread your message and tell people why they should vote for you”. In other words, if you have no money you can’t spread your message and tell people to vote for you - nobody even knows who you are. The more money you have, the more you can “spread the message”…

And finally, we all know that US is commited to “spreading the democracy” and fair elections are all they are looking for. Until you vote for the wrong guy (Hamas, Ahmedinejad, and yes Salvadore Allende). Otherwise they wouldn’t be talking to Mubarak, Pinochet, king Fahd, Musharaf, etc, etc.

Posted by FromNowhere at December 20, 2006 01:11 PM

seems to me that EM is okay with US-backed dictators only if it means going against socialist rule…kind of hypocritical imo…plus, seems like EM labels anyone with any leftist tendencies a communist…i would expect much more open-mindedness from such an accomplished journalist…

Posted by blitz at December 20, 2006 01:15 PM

Thanks Weary! for your Cuban thorn theory vis-a-vis Washington control freaks. So from the Global Cop of Democracy and Freedom the message is…

“Your existence offends us.”

God, them Yanks must be seriously nuts to carry on a grudge like that for generations, and then lecture people in the Middle East on how to be get along. So I guess now the billionaire multi-nationals are salivating on how to rape Cuba in punishment for being a “thorn” for so long.

DCanuck
My Head Hurts

Posted by D. Canuck at December 20, 2006 01:21 PM

Re-reading my last post… I’m starting to sound a like a Seattle Tomato Thrower. Doesn’t make it less valid though.

DCanuck
You Say Tomato…

Posted by D. Canuck at December 20, 2006 01:23 PM

Bino, sorry for misrepresenting you. I normally do not generalize and the “card carrying” comment was more of a joke than anything.

I also was not meaning to suggest you supported mass assassinations. Your comment simply led me to make the accusation that our Western politicians are so morally bankrupt that they are moving in that direction.

I can’t criticize such thinking because I’m no better. Democracy has reached the point where we are powerless to remove people like Blair and Bush from power(especially if you don’t live in Britain or America) so I certainly support anyone who might assassinate these men. I know they’d simply be replaced by other likeminded people, however if we were to murder them it’d send a message to their successors not to go that far. Instead Blair and Bush will retire in comfort and be respected by a segment of the populace. Thus a green light is sent to the Gordon Browns, John McCains and Jeb Bushes that they can go just as far, if not further.

The only way to stop people from waging wars is to make the consequences so bad they won’t do it. When there are no consequences it just means we’ll have more wars. 2007 will be remembered as the year of the nuclear attack on Iran. Again the people responsible will pay no price for it.

Thus I can support any assassintation of a Bush or a Blair with a clear conscience as I see it as a deterrent against future violence. I’m apologize if this position offends anyone.

Posted by Paul Whiteside at December 20, 2006 01:44 PM

Paul Whiteside said:

“Thus I can support any assassintation of a Bush or a Blair with a clear conscience as I see it as a deterrent against future violence. I’m apologize if this position offends anyone.”

I don’t see how killing these people would be an effective deterrent. Killing will just beget reprisal. The only time killing might work as a long-term political tool is if the killers are so overwhelmingly powerful that those being killed cannot mount an effective reprisal (e.g. the subjugation of Native North Americans by Europeans). But as we are seeing in Iraq, even overwhelming power may not be enough, unless accompanied by the intent to eradicate, or at least totally marginalize a population.

Posted by Weary at December 20, 2006 02:11 PM

Hmm - Rampart’s been pretty quiet since Bino showed us how many times he posted (à-la knee-jerk reaction) in the last 24 hours.

Yes, I actually find myself agreeing more and more with Bino. While I agree political assassination doesn’t do anything, the old Fidel passing away from natural causes would be an excellent signal to mass consciousness that the “Old Cold War” is finally over.

Raoul is even talking about opening a Democracy dialogue… Times have changed.

It IS remarkable that Castro begged the Russians to nuke America during the Bay of Pigs. That guy IS a nutbar.

Tovy

Posted by Tovy at December 20, 2006 02:20 PM

Tovy:

I think Mr. Margolis removed all of Rampart’s posts from this week’s board.

Castro isn’t any more of a nutbar than the current U.S. administration itching to nuke Iran or the administration in Israel itching to do the same.

If Cuba is actually allowed to have a democracy, I think it would be great.

Posted by Weary at December 20, 2006 02:48 PM

Really? Eric is a fantastic moderator then.

Good point RE: Castro not being any different from other tyrants. The biggest difference seems to be that the US has a giant war budget.

I also think that Guantanamo serves a dual purpose - it’s a prison and a warning to other “terrorists” that if you are “against us” that the US is going to put things in your nether regions and sic the dogs on you.

It’s such a diss that they put it on Cuban soil though.

Tovy

Posted by Tovy at December 20, 2006 03:24 PM

A question regarding Democracy in a Communist state:

This time about China - Do you guys think that the consequences of the protest at Tiannamen square lde the Chinese government to believe that they could handle a mass protest like that again?

Will anything other than slow, inter-generational changes bring democracy to China?

Tovy

Posted by Tovy at December 20, 2006 03:33 PM

“I don’t see how killing these people would be an effective deterrent. Killing will just beget reprisal. The only time killing might work as a long-term political tool is if the killers are so overwhelmingly powerful that those being killed cannot mount an effective reprisal (e.g. the subjugation of Native North Americans by Europeans). But as we are seeing in Iraq, even overwhelming power may not be enough, unless accompanied by the intent to eradicate, or at least totally marginalize a population.”

Very very true; such assassination would only be a pretext for spilling a LOT more blood. In truth, even if you are dealing with effectively marginalized people, how effective is it, really, to assassinate their leaders? Killing such people demonstrates nothing really; you have to show nations led by belligerent leaders that their leadership has made them more vulnerable. This is not easy to do, and is not accomplished by assassinating leaders or holding schools hostage; intelligent governments do little more than sieze upon those opportunities as a pretext to justify further acts of aggression to a populace that, in general, is easily swayed by rhetoric, and fear for its own ‘safety.’

Posted by chatman at December 20, 2006 05:03 PM

The reason there are few Right Wing sites that invite discussion is that Right Wingers can’t stand discussion unless it’s all in agreement with their own ideas. Just watch any show on Fox, you’re either in full agreement with the commentator or you’re labeled “Saddam’s Favorite ___________” (fill in the blank).

I used to watch Rush Limbaugh (just for a cardiac workout without even getting off the sofa) and noticed that Rush always spoke of himself as ‘the voice of the people’ but there was only ever one voice to be heard… Rush’s.

Ross Perot had the same thing going when he was running for Pres against Clinton. Perot tried to pass himself off as ‘the voice of the common man’ although he’d brook no common man’s voice. It was a reach for a billionaire anyways, even a nutjob like Perot

Right Wingers don’t want discussion unless it’s in agreement with their ideas. To quote that paragon of freedom Ann Coulter “If you disagree with anything I say you are an enemy of America and Freedom.”

DCanuck

P.S. Three cheers for the moderator. Let’s hope R is banished electronically, never to offend/flame us again.

Posted by D. Canuck at December 20, 2006 05:05 PM

D. Canuck - The inability to stand discussion unless it is all in agreement with their own ideas is not a trait exclusive to the right.

The people you cited - Limbaugh (how fun was the whole pill-popping episode?), Coulter (she said you and I and all Canucks were “lucky” that America let us exist) - those are the lowest of the low. They are the Howard Sterns of political discussion.

OT - Anyone following the Iranian elections? Local elections showed deep discontent with the president‘s hard line. Also, an interesting little article from today’s Tehran Times regarding the IAEA and Iran: http://www.tehrantimes.com/Description.asp?Da=12/21/2006&Cat=2&Num=013

Posted by Bino at December 20, 2006 06:16 PM

Bino,

1) Acknowleged, but it seems more prevalent to the Right. I could be wrong.

2) True, they’re dirt, but they’re fun to poop on.

3) Sorry, falling behind on my Iranian politics. Hey!! They can’t use the word “tit” when describing Islamic politics!!

DCanuck

Posted by D. Canuck at December 20, 2006 07:08 PM

Weary is right that the U.S. could radically change (that is, improve) the situation in Cuba overnight, by lifting its embargo, without having to wait for Fidel to die. (And for Cuba’s sake, I hope he can hang on at least until the next U.S. presidential election.)

Likewise, the U.S. could radically change/improve the situation in Palestine, by threatening to stop subsidizing Israel. But both these reorientations ignore domestic U.S. politics. A strong, courageous president, not beholden to exiled Cuban or Zionist lobbyists, is needed.

As for genocide: there are different levels of extermination (as there are different levels of existence). It’s clear that Israel is doing everything it has to (but perhaps not everything it is able to) in order to keep the Palestinians weak and deny them a viable, independent state. If this isn’t quite genocide, it’s not much better.

And I for one hope that Rampart hasn’t been censored. He amuses me. And he has so much to learn. Maybe there was another coup in Pakistan, and internet access has been temporarily suspended?

Posted by hyperbolus at December 20, 2006 07:35 PM

Why does anyone think Rampart has been censored? He has voluntarily withdrawn from playing on the site (half way through miond you). Of course he will be back - he makes as much or more sense than many of us. He is welcome here although he jumps to labelling conclusions but that is the impetuousness of youth. He’ll mellow.

Paul Simon wanted to put on an album “Cuba si, Nixon no” but Art Garfunkle veteod it. They broke up soon after.

Posted by shazam at December 21, 2006 11:06 AM

Shazam:

Rampart had more than a dozen posts on this week’s board which have now disappeared. You can see a reference to some of these posts in Bino’s post of December 19, 2006 06:48 PM above. We haven’t heard from Rampart since his posts disappeared.

Perhaps Rampart asked Mr. Margolis to remove the posts and then voluntarily withdrew from the board, but I doubt that since Rampart is a reflexive poster.

Posted by Weary at December 21, 2006 11:40 AM

Re; Rampart,

Hyperbolus,
Like a foul-mouthed uncle at the dinner table, the amusement eventually wears off and then there’s only the foul mouth.

Shazam,
He might mellow, but not in this decade. Probably not the next one either.

Weary,
Voluntarily? That’s highly unlikely. It’d be like a pyromaniac extinguishing his own fires. It would negate his existence.

I for one, am glad he’s gone. It saves me checking the name of the poster before reading the post. That was tedious but saved me a lot of aggravation.

And Bino,
To clarify my earlier post, I guess the further a person is “out there” on the political spectrum the less likely they are to tolerate the opinions of others. You’re right, it’s not exclusive to the Right.

DCanuck

Posted by D. Canuck at December 21, 2006 02:10 PM

Off topic, but here is an intersting take on U.S. and Israeli policies in the Middle East.

http://www.jkcook.net/Articles2/0293.htm#Top

Posted by Weary at December 21, 2006 03:19 PM

I have a lot of time for Jonathan Cook (see Weary’s link).

Rampart may be deactivated for this post if Bino’s return is any indication, he will be back. I wrote to EM to complain about Bino et voila, he and his vendective disappeared. Looks like he learned his lesson about name calling; now its Rampart’s turn.

The Right does not want to hear others’ views because they believe they are right, even when they are knowingly lying and distorting the truth to fit their dogma. Their motto is: “Please, don’t confuse me with the facts”. Have you ever asked why the killers of Presidents have all been right wingers? Its because left-leaning people care about others, tend to be inclusive and seek common ground, whereas right wingers want to impose their missionary zeal on others because they know the right way.

I am encouraged by the audacity of Chauvez of Venezula who makes a mockery of the US rightist agenda. I saw an ad on American TV a cuope of days ago where residential fuel oil was being offered at a discount to poor people in the US, not by their own government mind you, but by Citco (an oil comnpany owned by Venezula). The left care, the right wants power. The paradox is, the right and especially todays religious right come from the head (e.g. apocolyptic vision) rather than their heart whereas their alleged inspiration, Jesus, was all about a wide open heart chakra.

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good day!

Posted by ghawley at December 21, 2006 03:56 PM

I believe that posts from both Rampart and Peace were removed from this week’s board on account of use of another language albeit written in the English alphabet.

I know, as there was a request for translation from me. EM presumably did not like that for obvious reasons. Exclusivity of language is not a desired format for a board of this nature.

Having said that I hope that EM would be kind enough to reconsider the reinstatement of both Rampart and Peace now that the message has been delivered loud and clear.

The poster Peace by in large has personified in actions the name he/she has selected for him-her/self. I think he/she some how got furious with Bino’s posting this week, took it personally and called him an “Alley Dog” in his language which is admittedly not the right thing to do. (Bino, if you do a careful google search you will come up with that and not “Dog fu..er” as you surmised).
On the whole Peace has posted poetry and very mild to very innocuous subject matter from time to time on this board abd usually a unifying message.

As for Rampart, I am pretty sure that he realizes his error posting in his own language especially when he is marvelously efficient in the English language.

As Weary noted that Rampart is reflexive poster, but also one that posts in short bursts, as opposed to Chatman and myself, who do it in a long drawn out manner.The frequency of Rampart’s posts does not mean that he is monopolizing the board.

I think the label of racist against him is an incorrect one; you could accuse him of not being politically correct, but just because he has a habit of dumping on India and its inhabitants does not make him a racist.
As a matter of fact on some occasions he has called himself a bastard because of his own mixed lineage that being of the Mongols and Pathans and who knows what else.

Rampart brings to this board an acute sense of presentation and a style of his own. He is a product of his environment as we are of ours. His Asian perspective and knowledge allows us the benefit of the mentality inherent to that part of the world and enriches the discussion here.
He has a keenly sharp wit, which is lightening fast, but is also his weakness, which he must discipline to use at the appropriate time and manner. He has an inflated sense of bravado, which makes Rampart, Rampart!
Personally I don’t wish to see him gone off this forum and innately know that he holds EM in the highest regard and great respect and would not willfully harm this forum.

Like Bino, Rampart has the capability of getting under peoples skin, but that in effect is our problem isn’t it, that we are so sensitive.
A few months back some of the same voices as now, were calling for censure of Bino and his caustic posts.

In recent weeks Bino to his credit seems to be amplifying on his stance rather that posting caustic statements without arguments or substantiation.

For instance in the past, Bino would have posted something to this effect:

“Die Fidel Die, the sooner the better”

and not substantiated his position and everyone would jump on him and the board would descend into chaos with personal invectives.

Now Bino has started providing some background and I personally have benefited from his viewpoint, I may not still like it but it has allowed me to challenge some of my own perceptions.

All who ask for censure and exclusion of certain personalities because of what they write or their particular style must eventually face their own shortcomings, personal biases and demons.

Just because one may find reading various posts cumbersome or the content offensive personally does not imply that they are not worthwhile reading or some meaning cannot be extracted from them.

In ending I leave you all with this quote from Noam Chomsky

“”If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for
people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all.”

Posted by oldfan at December 21, 2006 04:34 PM

Oldfan,

Your single post is most likely longer than ALL of Rampart’s 19 posts put together. Maybe you should be banned for monopolizing the forum?! Some would have it that way.

I do not agree that the two suspects’ posts were deleted because of his use of a different language unless what they wrote was extremely inflammatory. If it was reasonable, then why remove it? I believe they have been censored because of the unproductive invective coming from their keyboards. Someone must have complained and brought it to the attention of the annonymour moderator.

That said, I pretty much agree with all you have said. North Americans have an incredible sensitivity and can not withstand any criticism at all. They feel attacked and therefore attack back. I believe that Bush Jr has this problem. Any criticism is countered with a more harsh violent reality.

Other cultures (Eastern European, Asian) tend to be more blunt and direct thereby facilitating a more honest approach. Middle eastern people are also very sensitive and emotional and therefore you must tip toe around statememts said.

I agree that while Bino’s character and morals may be questionable by some people’s standards, he should have a right to post in a reasonable manner and not get heckled off the board. How else will the chasm ever be gapped if people can not express how they really think and feel so others can understand.

Indeed, Chomsky has it right.

Posted by guesswho at December 21, 2006 05:16 PM

BTW, do you really think that EM actually looks at this board while trapsing around the exotic world places?! I find that hard to believe. I am sure someone in his employ does any moderating. I can see EM in the gulag, “…oops, better check my forum to make sure no one is causing trouble before we look at your latest torture equipment.”

Hmmm, I doubt it.

Posted by guesswho at December 21, 2006 05:18 PM

For those who believe that America is a friend of Democracy and aspires for all to have democratic institutions in their countries, here is a history of their achievements in building those institutions throughout the world.

In this article there is a little section on Cuba and their untiring efforts in building a democracy there, along with other lucky countries like Iran, Grenada, Chile, Guatemala and so on.

http://www.alternet.org/audits/39416/

How lucky for this world of ours that we have such great benefactors in America who care so much about the welfare of our societies, the needs of our institutions, the lives of our children and loved ones, what a priviledge.

Posted by oldfan at December 21, 2006 05:19 PM

It seems I may be monopolizing the board right now, but just came across this article, it looks like an interesting read.

“I’m Jealous of Cuba”
An Interview with Gore Vidal
By ROSA MARIAM ELIZALDE
http://www.counterpunch.org/mariam12212006.html

Posted by oldfan at December 21, 2006 05:44 PM

Jonathan Cook and Gore Vidal (and Eric Margolis) are always worth reading.

Perhaps a minor quibble: wasn’t McKinley assassinated by an anarchist (hardly a right-winger)? Was Lee Harvey Oswald right or left wing? Violence is by no means the exclusive property of the right.

Posted by hyperbolus at December 21, 2006 07:22 PM

Lincoln was killed by a reactionary, as was Bobby and who knows who really killed JFK? Martin Luther was zapped by a racist, and so on.

While there are some unknowns, we know for sure that Democrats get killed while Republicans live to inflict their selfish ideology upon others, including those reviewed in the link listed by oldfan. The left has no killer instinct, which leaves thw Right with the impression they are weak rather than inclusive.

Oldfan, your perception of Rampart is spot on. Come back soom Rami!

Posted by ghawley at December 21, 2006 08:52 PM

I apologize for what I’m about to say if some feel it inappropriate, however I feel a point should be made. One needs only look at the board this week to see what a disruptive effect Rampart has on it. Are we discussing the subject presented to us by EM? No we are posting about Rampart’s status. Who created this problem? Rampart himself by his continuous inflammatory behavior. I don’t care if he has some good points because the price of his presence is too high! Let’s demand a high standard for behavior on this board, say goodbye to Rampart, and get back to discussing world affairs.

Posted by Paul Whiteside at December 22, 2006 09:13 AM

Thank you, guesswho.

Yes I’m sure the globe-trotting EM is fretting about us bickerers. As for Noam Chomsky’s statement about freedom of speech being for those views you dispise… Chomsky said that Hitler was all for free speech - as long as you agreed with him. Allowing someone free speech in no way means you can’t say that person is dead wrong.

DCanuck

Hmm new word!

DCanuck

Posted by D. Canuck at December 22, 2006 03:11 PM

Paul,
Quite so, we end up talking about other posters when they push buttons. You have your view but Rampart makes a significant net contribution in my estimation. Moreover, the time spent on this post about his style is nothing at all like the time spent on Bino. Me feels you had a button pushed for which you should be grateful rather than pissed off about as it is a path to insight. And since its Xmas, its time for forgiveness too.
Thanks for the Rumi oldfan.

Posted by shazam at December 23, 2006 01:10 PM

Peace to one and all.

Please give a listen to some of the cuts from this CD titled “Lullabies from the axis of Evil”.
No.6 is very appropriate for this season as well for all times and a favourite of mine.

http://www.valley-entertainment.com/Artists/Lullabies_from_the_Axis_of_Evil/

Posted by oldfan at December 23, 2006 03:32 PM

Another (possibly) minor quibble: Lincoln was a Republican.

True anarchists and communists (on the left) have always been willing (and proud) to use violence to advance their politics. Liberals are no doubt more hypocritical when it comes to violence, but they’re quite willing to use it nonetheless. Did FDR, Truman, JFK, LBJ, and Clinton preside over any less violent administrations than Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan, and the Bushes?

Posted by hyperbolus at December 23, 2006 06:19 PM

OT - Anyone notice/care that Chavez is cracking down on the media?

“After winning his re-election bid in Venezuela, Hugo Chavez wants to eliminate any hint of dissent. He has ordered an end to the broadcast license of Radio Caracas TV, which opposed him and supported a 2003 strike in protest of his regime.”

Nice.

Posted by Bino at December 29, 2006 01:24 PM

Returning to the topic at hand:

It is always disheartening to me the amount of anti-Castro rhetoric and discontent there is.

Castro is not an innocent, but no government leader is. For me, however, he is a better example than most. He has defended the culture of his people despite every effort the US has made to regain control of Cuba: a global symbol of successful resistance to American imperialism and economic bullying.

Of course, Castro has gone to great lengths to defend his government and Cuba from efforts to remove him and return the Cuban people to the status of servant slaves and Cuba to America’s playground.

What pricks America’s pride the most is that the quality of life in Cuba is leaps and bounds better than the quality of life of millions of Americans.

I do not understand Castro’s mistreatment and abuse of homosexuals and other marginalized people; such actions are not defendable.

His suppression of disenters is understandable since his government is socialist. Capitalists and profiteers will make every effort to spoil his efforts to create a relatively egalitarian society where everyone has free and EQUAL access to medicine and education.

How can he allow friends and allies of American calitalists to tear apart what most Cubans have worked so hard to build in spite of the U.S.’s efforts to prevent freedom and equality to take root in latin America or anywhere else in the world?

Castro, despite some of his shortcomings, will go down in history as one of the greatest leaders (and long lasting) of all time.

He is a true intellectual which most state leaders are not. Most Cuban’s lives have improved under him and would have improved IMMENSELY if the US would not interfere.

The problem is, not many people born into this world can resist the corruption of power as Castro has and guard against it so passionately.

I hope for Cuba’s sake and for the sake of my hope for a world free of the violent exploitive effects of Capitalism that Cuba will find a way to continue to strive for something better than American global totalitarianism.

Long live the revolution!

Posted by Joshua at December 29, 2006 02:40 PM

Lincoln also spoke in Canadian parliament and he profoundly (prophetically?) thanked Canada for building such strong provinces that will one day make for strong states.

The actions of Chavez are defendable for the same reason Castro’s control of media is defendable.

Chavez’s enemies have one thing in common: they are all capitalists which means they are against anything socialist.

The media has nothing to with free speech and everything to do with control. Look at our media. There is nothing of substance in it. We are told what to think about and how in the way the STORIES are presented.

Since people with money have the most to lose under Chavez politics, they will use their assets (the media) to undermine him and sway public opinion by affecting public opinion.

Thus- censorship of the media makes sense. It has nothing to do with free speech.

Posted by Joshua at December 29, 2006 02:48 PM

I totally agree Joshua. Thanks for posting!
For an interesting and provocative musing on life after Fidel, see Gwynne Dyer’s article on Life after Castro:

http://www.gwynnedyer.net/articles/Gwynne%20Dyer%20article_%20%20After%20Castro.txt

Posted by shazam at December 29, 2006 05:22 PM

Thank you shazam- that was an intriguing read.

Posted by Joshua at December 29, 2006 08:56 PM

http://www.counterpunch.org/landau12252006.html

Posted by oldfan at December 29, 2006 10:53 PM

Rampart:

Read this article and let me know what you think about this author’s assertions, does his viewpoints coincide with yours.
If you still can’t post here write to me at napomiska@hotmail.com, it would be nice to hear from you.

http://www.counterpunch.org/mustafa12292006.html

Posted by oldfan at December 30, 2006 12:45 AM

Sorry Rampart the email should be napomishka@hotmail.com, I missed the “h”.

Posted by oldfan at December 30, 2006 12:49 AM

My guess for Eric’s next article is Saddam’s hanging. He was taunted by his hangmen as he went to the gallows. Some people ain’t got no class.

Posted by shazam at December 31, 2006 04:25 PM

He died like a man and a martyr… no snivelling coward!

Posted by dikcoates at December 31, 2006 10:06 PM

Yes, Saddam did die like a man (even requested a firing squad). Unfortunately, he lived like a coward the way he tortured and mutilated people (even with US help).

Posted by guesswho at January 1, 2007 01:04 PM

I think he loved Iraq and wanted what was best for Iraq. There’s no question that he was brutal, as are many rulers in the area and his ‘iron hand’ was likely necessary to keep Iraq from boiling over as it has.

His biggest problem was that the best interests of Iraq were not in keeping with the best interest of the Americans and, like so many in past, they turned on him.

Posted by dikcoates at January 1, 2007 06:35 PM

More than any of the prior discussion about Castro and America, the manner and method of Saddam’s death should be the most poignant indicator of how far this nation (The United States) has fallen (or how low it is). I’ve often found the things we do in this country to be embarassing, but this was both chilling and disturbing. I know it happens underground, but knowing it and seeing it are two different things.

Saddam’s own brutality aside, he was a valuable source of information that could have been very damaging (politically) to Bush’s neocon friends. They wanted him dead right away, so they turned him over to what basically is a Shiite militia (the ‘sovereign’ government of Iraq) so that such knowledge would die with Saddam. At the very least, he should have been put on trial for other atrocities he was accused of. Of course, in the end it would not even matter, since the trials were hardly fair, and the verdicts likely pre-written.

This sort of ‘justice’ is nothing more than a CIA ‘rendering’ diguised as justice; even though it seems that our government is not above performing torture and execution of foreign fighters, the ‘transfer’ of Saddam to ‘sovereign Iraqi government officials’ is as much a sham as declaring Bush’s death a ‘milestone.’ Given that, in Bush’s own state, executions of citizen criminals are quite common, I suppose it’s no surprise that the former governor of Texas would be morbid and crass enough to declare the state sanctioned execution of a human being as a ‘major milestone’ in Iraq. In grasping for the feeble straws that might somehow define ‘progress’ in Iraq, Bush is prepared to invoke the death of a broken man as a sign of progress in a country where hundreds or people die every day in sectarian violence.

Sad; the only people who profit from this death are the orchestrators of this farce of a conflict.

Posted by chatman at January 1, 2007 08:20 PM

Oops.. correction:

“The ‘transfer’ of Saddam to ‘sovereign Iraqi government officials’ is as much a sham as declaring Bush’s death a ‘milestone.’ should be…

“The ‘transfer’ of Saddam to ‘sovereign Iraqi government officials’ is as much a sham as Bush declaring Saddam’s death a ‘milestone.’”

Posted by chatman at January 1, 2007 08:23 PM

Chatman,

I agree with your assessment completely. Was that a Freudian slip though?! You had better be careful, the FBI, DNS or whatever your local secret service calls themselves now will be watching you. I hope you don’t end up in some isolation chamber without access to due process or a lawyer in the land of “freedom”.

Posted by guesswho at January 2, 2007 01:55 AM

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