—-But China is unable to project naval power westward through the Strait of Malacca into the vast Indian Ocean and to the Gulf due to its lack of bases and air cover. Here, India holds a major advantage.——
Not any more.
——Pakistan, whose oil lifeline through the port of Karachi could be quickly severed by an Indian naval blockade.——-
Not any more.
——India’s surging economy and military will need access to Arab and Iranian oil which, after all, is almost next door. Thanks to Washington’s self-destructive Mideast policies, this door is now open to India.——-
And guess who else has their foot in that door? LOL
Posted by The Questioner at March 12, 2007 02:01 PM
A few interesting on-topic reads:
Remember the elephant
For too long Canada has somehow overlooked the biggest democracy in the world, India, mistakenly focusing on China instead…
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/opinion/story.html?id=12f37449-9492-443a-8df7-321d54a7edaa
Ottawa pitching trade deal to India…
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070312.windia12/BNStory/National/?cid=al_gam_nletter_newsUp
Taiwan fears attack by China
Associated Press…
http://www.ndtv.com/morenews/showmorestory.asp?slug=Taiwan+fears+China+attack&id=102071#
Posted by Bino at March 12, 2007 04:06 PM
Questioner,
Why “Not any more” to the two points you have commented on?
Posted by guesswho at March 12, 2007 04:19 PM
The hegemonic influence and power of the United States is waning in favor of regional powers that are closer to supply lines than the Trans global military of the US. Couple this with the fact the US military is being underwritten by debt held in the form of bonds and treasury notes by the aforementioned “mini super powers”, the competition for energy control will belong to said regional powers. The wasted Presidency of Cheney-Bush should have been spent utilizing regional energy pools in North and South America thereby ensuring US energy self sufficiency in a controllable region where the span of influence is not hindered by supply line and logistical considerations. Instead the two wise men of the Pseudo War on Terror have mortgaged the US into a position of near bankruptcy and a future energy crisis that will hold to US hostage. Behold the fall or Rome is upon us.
Posted by Frank at March 12, 2007 04:36 PM
“India’s modern aircraft carrier”
Viraat (HMS Centaur class), India’s only operational carrier is a world war II vintage STOVL aircraft carrier, and hardly modern…
It only looks good anchored in the GOA harbor and even Indians won’t make the mistake of sailing it into open waters during hostilities, let alone anywhere near the Pakistani territorial waters…where the pack of Pakistani Agosta 90B, the quitest operational conventional subs in the world, on the prowl, couple with shore-based Exocet armed Mirages would make short work of Viraat…The sinking of Viraat would be hugely embarassing for India, so they won’t risk it, just like the didn’t in the last three wars with Pakistan…
Posted by williamwallace at March 12, 2007 06:54 PM
The Indian Navy is nowhere close to even challenging the power of the American Navy. OK, which naval base does India have in the Middle East? Oh yeah, I forgot: none. How many bases do the Americans have in the Middle East? Last time I checked, they have more than the number of fingers on both my hands. The Indian aircraft carrier is actually the IN’s white elephant: its age old Harriers aren’t even a match for Pakistan’s current F-16’s let alone the new Su-33’s the PLAN is going to be getting for its aircraft carrier (yeah, the Chinese are going to have an aircraft carrier as well by 2010). The PLAN will also have the chance to refuel in Gwadar whereas the IN won’t have that luxury. If the IN isn’t given a naval base in the Middle East, they won’t be able to project their power at all beyond the Indian subcontinent.
Posted by crazyinsane105 at March 12, 2007 09:54 PM
One last thing: China built and inducted about 14 submarines last year. The US built one. By this pace, the Chinese submarine force will outnumber the American sub force. Let’s not even bother with India’s submarine building industry-oh wait, they don’t have one lol. They just got the contract to build the six Scorpenes and the first one will be built by 2012. The only thing I find respectable of the IN are the missile armed frigates and destroyers that are of Russian origin and their aviation. Their carrier and sub force isn’t on par with the PLAN at all.
Posted by crazyinsane105 at March 12, 2007 09:57 PM
“The Bush Administration’s serial blunders in the Mideast have not only seriously undermined American influence over the region…” - Why should the U.S. have an influence in the Mideast in the first place??? How about Middle Eastern countries have an influence in North America? How’s that for a change?
Posted by hedagem at March 12, 2007 09:59 PM
Yeah, I’m a pretty big fan of Eric’s articles, but this one wasn’t his greatest articles unfortunately.
Posted by crazyinsane105 at March 12, 2007 10:00 PM
Guesswho, I already answered one of Questioner’s points. Here’s the other:
Pakistan’s new port is going to be Gwadar. With the avaialability of Gwadar, blocking off Karachi isn’t going to cut off Pakistan’s oil. You’re going to have to block off both Gwadar and Karachi and right now the IN isn’t that powerful at all. Pakistan is also going to buy either the French Marlin or the German U-214 to beef up its submarine fleet and there are reports of buying the latest Chinese stealth frigates. The IN won’t be able to pull off another ‘71 for a long long timee to come.
Oh, one last thing: the Chinese are planning to get past the Strait of Malacas by building a canal through Thailand (a project that is worth 25 billion USD).
Posted by crazyinsane105 at March 12, 2007 10:04 PM
Guesswho:
Yes, Crazyinsane has answered your query very well. As has Williamwallace.
Frankly, I think Eric is sometimes too easily impressed (I assume he is in India from the way he said “here in Bombay/Mumbai”).
This article was a bit poorly researched. 5 out of 10.
Also keep in mind numbers like, for example Pakistan Navy’s frigates will match India’s in number by 2012. The submarine arm is another story. Point is, we are matching their firepower and will exceed. In some important ways, we already have.
As for my last point, if India wants oil or gas, cheap, it HAS TO come through Pakistan through a pipeline. There is no other alternative. You can well imagine the strategic heartburn that situation is giving the Indians. All those plans about getting an undersea pipeline are a … pipe-dream. The ships to lay an undersea pipe that big haven’t been designed or built yet. So there we are.
Posted by The Questioner at March 12, 2007 10:38 PM
Eric sez, India is in danger of losing the game.
I say, the game has already been lost. You think we couldn’t see the energy scenario of the future? You think the Chinese couldn’t?
India has been outflanked. It might not be obvious to some, but give it a few more years.
Posted by The Questioner at March 12, 2007 10:47 PM
LOL!
Leave it to an article commending India’s clearly growing military and economic strengths to bring all of the angry Pakistani nationals out of the woodwork. It’s almost impossible to have an honest and reasonable discussion about India’s growing power and requirements without talking about how Pakistan is about to cancel it out.
I would agree with those who state that pointless efforts like the Viraat “aircraft carrier” are not great examples of sound military thinking. If there’s one thing that Pakistanis have learned from being the underdog, it’s how to efficiently keep the much larger Indian forces bogged down. That said, the increasing size of the Indian submarine forces (the only useful naval forces, IMO) should give any contender for domination of the Indian Ocean cause for alarm.
Despite all that, however, I would argue that Pakistan can’t afford to be involved in an escalating arms race with its much larger neighbor, even if they are able to perform more efficiently than their bureaucratically constrained neighbor. A lasting peace is to everyone’s benefit, though sadly, India’s obfuscation in the recent talks has been disappointing. India, despite manifest problems in military and social areas, can unfortunately afford to allow the status quo to remain. Even the separatist rebellions in the outlying regions, significant infrastructure problems, looming social and health crises, and depression among the military ranks, one has a hard time arguing that India’s phenomenal growth rate will go a long way towards alleviating such concerns.
I was there in 2004, and the speed at which they are developing infrastructure in urban and rural areas is staggering! Pakistan’s own progress, though admirable, is not without caveats and problems of their own, many of which are mirrored across the Indo-Pak frontier.
Posted by chatman at March 12, 2007 10:49 PM
Questioner;
I would add that, just because Eric has noticed the phenomenal growth of Indian industry does not imply that his article is poorly researched. I would argue that your own perspective is anything but unbiased, and that the “outflanking” that you claim has already occurred is hardly the real state of affairs. The game is still very much afoot, though I would agree with Eric that the amount of time it took for India to realize its energy perils is surprising, given the problems they’ve had in the past with energy.
Posted by chatman at March 12, 2007 10:53 PM
Oh… and btw.. do you think the little trouble we had in Balochistan was a coincidence? Nope. It was connected to all the above. That is the route of all the gas and oil that will flow into India (or to Amreeka if it is from Central Asia).
Remember, a country with nuclear weapons can only be attacked from the inside. It is quite useless to attack from the outside. Hence, the Nawab of Bugti (may he rot in Hell) and his little drama trying to put pressure on our present and future energy resources.
Notice how we ended it. We are well aware of the “new great game”.
This also illustrates my point, why nuclear states often have to be brutal in repressing any internal challenges to the authority of the Govt.
Posted by The Questioner at March 12, 2007 10:58 PM
Pakistan doesn’t need to be involved in an escalating arms race.
AQ Khan said (he had a habit opening his mouth unnecessarily) that we have the ability to destroy all Indian targets of any importance 3 times over. He said this many years ago.
What more do we need? Until India finds a way to neutralize our strategic weapons, the stand-off will keep a constraint on India’s options. The rest is all icing.
Anyway, we are only providing opportunities to China. That is a very cheap and effective strategy. One which we an well afford.
India’s growing industry is a far second to China’s. And without energy, it is going to smack into a barrier that can’t be easily broken.
Give it a few years to make it obvious.
Of course, this is also a great opportunity for Pakistan and India to get together and thrash out a permanent solution to both our problems.
Posted by The Questioner at March 12, 2007 11:10 PM
Chatman:
——Pakistan’s own progress, though admirable, is not without caveats and problems of their own,——
We do not have strategic bottlenecks to acquiring more energy sources.
——I would argue that your own perspective is anything but unbiased, and that the “outflanking” that you claim has already occurred is hardly the real state of affairs. The game is still very much afoot——-
Okay…. so the game is afoot. I will agree with that. Only, the Chinese have made several moves.
India is only considering making a move.
I know of course India will respond to it’s needs in some fashion. They have to. But as things stand, they haven’t done much of anything except drag their feet on the Iran-Pak-India pipeline (Iran lost their patience with India last month, btw).
Bottom line…. it is India’s move and we are waiting…. and waiting…. and waiting. So (Pak-China) can make a counter-move. Meanwhile, China is interested in Pak-China railway link and Pak-China oil pipeline. It will be quite a feat of mega-engineering, but it can be done.
So forgive me for being skeptical. From my perspective it appears India is standing still on the energy front.
Posted by The Questioner at March 13, 2007 12:15 AM
Anyway… we all know Chimpy and Co. pour oil over their pancakes instead of maple syrup.
Iran is well on it’s way to be first casualty of the new Great Game.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/02/20/news/nuke.php
Posted by The Questioner at March 13, 2007 12:36 AM
Questioner:
If you see what’s happening in India, you would be pretty impressed, and perhaps frightened as well. (Both India and China are courting environmental catastrophe far before any shortage of fuel becomes an issue). I would argue, however, that there is tremendous overcapitalization in China, and that much of their growth has come at substantial environmental and economic cost; by valuing production over all else, they have forgotten that raping the environment carries its own economic costs. These are lessons are being learned a little faster (and only a little faster) than their northern neighbors.
That said, China is an interesting case study of how efficient autocracy may be a necessary prerequisite to effective government of Asian peoples. Maybe… India’s problems are manifold and staggering, chief among them being that there are few real patriots in “the world’s largest democracy.” (Ironically the same can be said of the world’s “richest democracy.”) However, if you ever visit India, and travel to the wealthier and poorer parts, its clear that things have changed substantially, and the “Hindu growth rate” is a thing of the past. The recent attempts at a nuclear deal clearly indicate that some members of the government are concerned.
Being a something of an futurist when it comes to developing energy solutions, I often wonder why the Indians don’t pursue riskier but more creative alternatives, like biofuels, clean coal, or even something really crazy like nuclear fusion (Those IIT grads must be good for something other than setting up outsourcing operations). Increasing nuclearization, and ultimately fusion, would solve all of their energy problems. But it wasn’t too long ago that King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia made overtures to Indian leaders, and signed some sort of deal for the sale of resources. It’s also hard to forget that India is a lot closer to the middle east, and a lot of Indians live and work there as contractors. Honestly, I hardly think India is out of the game, though they definitely tend to move slowly in a game where speed is of the essence.
It’s interesting to see where things will go, now that the Indians are finally waking up to the fact that energy may become a problem once again.
Posted by chatman at March 13, 2007 04:18 AM
Sorry, pertaining to my last post, I intended to say that the Indians learn about managing their resources and effecting environmental policies faster than the Chinese; I imagine that arises from having worked with scarce resources for so long.
Posted by chatman at March 13, 2007 04:20 AM
—— AQ Khan said … that we have the ability to destroy all Indian targets of any importance 3 times over. He said this many years ago.
The best thing both India and Pakistan can do is to develop early warning and mutual surveillance agreements to prevent such an exchange from ever occurring. It’s clearly in neither nation’s interest.
—- What more do we need? Until India finds a way to neutralize our strategic weapons, the stand-off will keep a constraint on India’s options. The rest is all icing.
Pakistani Nuclear weapons are nothing more than a counterweight to India’s conventional superiority, but both countries have strat weapons; they can’t really be countered per se, and the ability to destroy even one strategic or civilian target is all the deterrence that is required to prevent all out war. Te effect has been unexpectedly (to some, anyway) stabilizing. But that doesn’t mean that an arms race cannot and does not occur in other ways; means of deploying the weapons, upgrades to air forces, moving nuclear missiles to submarines, and funding proxies in places like Balochistan or Kashmir. Nuclear weapons don’t freeze such rivalries, and one must admit that he Indians can afford to have a longer shopping list than Pakistan at this time.
Maybe, while looking for new toys, they will purchase some decent avionics for their MiG 29’s, proper trainer aircraft to their air force, and retire all of their MiG 21’s and 23’s without crashing them into the ground first.
Posted by chatman at March 13, 2007 04:37 AM
:) alot of anger with respect to India. the chinese work very discreetly; they always have. congress is a bit grown up and can operate in the same manner. the BJP is another thing altogether.
they’re all about nationalistic bluster. the problems with respect to increasing prices of onions(among other things) will definately hit the congress govt very hard in the coming elections.
I think we’ll see another BJP government. If BJP does come to power, alot of the middle eastern countries will find it hard to sell an alliance with india to their populations.
Posted by _RealityBites_ at March 13, 2007 05:19 AM
the arabs dont have a problem with secular india. a hindu religious indian govt which forces its muslim population to sing “vande mahtram” or plans funny things about the babri mosque site is another thing altogether.
BJP has promised that it will do something about the babri mosque site if they’re re elected.
one should believe them; they promised the same about conducting atomic tests and they delivered.
Posted by _RealityBites_ at March 13, 2007 05:26 AM
Ugh. The last thing they need over there is another round of the BJP. All Indian governments operate slowly, but BJP adds an element of Hindu nationalist nonsense to the equation that the country really could do without. It’s not like the Hindu majority over there is under threat or anything…
Posted by chatman at March 13, 2007 02:34 PM
Since I don’t know enough about this week’s topic to comment intelligently I can only offer the following Canadian perspective…
I prefer Indian beer over Chinese beer.
But maybe that’s just because I am much more in need of a beer after eating Indian food than Chinese food. However, in uniquely Canadian fashion, I will also say that Chinese beer is pretty good as well.
DCanuck
Posted by D. Canuck at March 13, 2007 04:09 PM
btw, the arabs couldn’t care less about whether india is run by the BJP or not. they don’t know the difference and they don’t care whether muslims in india are getting burned alive on trains or not.
Posted by fahdp at March 13, 2007 06:42 PM
You’re right about that… In my opinion, secular india can be a partner in mending fences. an india under BJP is a pile of wood waiting for a spark.
there are about 250 million muslims in india(i think). thats a big pile of wood.
Posted by _RealityBites_ at March 14, 2007 04:09 AM
DCanuck try the biryani (rice) with some yogurt on the side; its a bit spicy but u’ll love it.
Posted by _RealityBites_ at March 14, 2007 06:45 AM
england is not the 51st amerikan state, although it looks that way on the surface. In reality it is the other way around. Financially and politically the U.S. is still a british colony. The amerikan government exists for the sole purpose of enforcing british policy. When was the last time the U.S. and britain disagreed about something important?
Posted by hedagem at March 14, 2007 08:28 AM
LOL D. Canuck. Your last line was great.
I love King Fisher and I don’t drink Chinese beer.
Posted by Bino at March 14, 2007 08:59 AM
The way out for India and others is to dramatically increase their search for new oil reserves and new sources of energy including very deep oil caches..
Why should India or others believe the self-serving pronouncements of oil giants and queue up for dwindling reserves in the Middle East?
Posted by Evan Palmer at March 14, 2007 09:59 AM
Evan Palmer:
The way out for everyone is two fold:
1. Alter lifestyles to dramatically reduce consumption of energy.
2. Increase research on efficient solar powered devices.
Unfortunately, the first will likely never happen voluntarily, and the second will not happen until fossil fuels are completely depleted.
Posted by Weary at March 14, 2007 10:24 AM
Al-Qaeda = Al-USA.
Al-Qaeda is an amerikan-made phantom organization; created, directed and financed by the U.S. of A. Al-Qaeda will take responsibility for anything the U.S. tells it to take responsibility for. 9/11 traitors absolve themselves.
Posted by hedagem at March 15, 2007 03:59 AM
OT - World Powers Agree on New Iran Sanctions
Posted by Bino at March 15, 2007 09:14 AM
The current and proposed sanctions against Iran are totally egregious. They show how influential the Zionist lobby is in the US especially but also in Europe where their well-orchestrated call to arms has them working on local politicians. Lucky them for Israel their “survival” pitch resonates with the Christian fundamentalists now running the White House, whose Crusade mentality works to keep Islam down.
So no nuclear power for Iran or any other such country thank you - let those folks and their ilk burn up their gas reserves to generate electricity needed to fuel their growing economies. If we haven’t destroyed their infrastructutre with our bombs beforehand, when the reserves are gone they and their religion are going nowhere. Ahh, a complete economic and spiritual victory. Onward Christian Soldiers – dominance of all as we run (and ruin) the planet.
Questions:
Where are the sanctions for Israel’s nuclear initiatives?
Where are the sanctions for Israel’s illegal and immoral Occupation?
Bino, you reported you are a fan of the Establishment rag, the Economist. I think I recall at one time someone recommended you also read The Atlantic Monthly to get a balanced (humanistic) perspective on events domestic and international. I was surprised to see the Economist (one of the mags to which I subscribe) post a reasoned Letter to the Editor: Keeping a promise”, page 22 of the March 3-9 edition. Let me reprint it here for one and all:
Keeping a promise
SIR – As you say, in order to lift its boycott the Western world has set three sensible conditions on the Palestinian Authority (“A holy but puzzling alliance”, February 17th). But when will we set the same three conditions on Israel: to recognise Palestine, to renounce violence and to keep their side of previous agreements? How can we expect peace in the Middle East when we boycott the Palestinians yet reward Israel with billions of dollars of aid when both sides are ignoring the basic preconditions for peace? The conditions are simple. Apply them equally to both sides and peace will have a chance.
Kamal Hassan
Toronto
I provide this because you wanted to have Palestine make all the concessions in a former post and obviously then and, given what we have seen so, still, your half brain needs to awake its other half, namely to the other side of the story.
Posted by shazam at March 15, 2007 02:03 PM
No, this is not the next Great Game. This has already been going on for the last decade. The Next Great game is a fight over water and the very few fertile spots that remain on the Earth.
On a different topic, no doubt in my mind that The Questioner is Rampart.
Posted by theking01 at March 15, 2007 02:34 PM
theking01
The Questioner admitted as much in his first post a few weeks ago.
As to the fight over water, guess where the battleground will be. Canada!
Of course, the government of Canada (whether it is Conservative or Liberal) will simply hand over control to the U.S. when the time comes. Whether other countries will want a chunk of Canada remains to be seen.
Posted by Weary at March 15, 2007 02:39 PM
That’s right, Shazam. Those pesky Jooos are sure have the Chinese, Russians, French and Germans under their Ziuonist talons!
“So no nuclear power for Iran or any other such country thank you”
Nuclear power is not the issue. Either you’re being obtuse or your reading comprehension is pathetic. Your choice.
I read Kamal’s letter when I got the issue. You should let him do all the talking for you.
Posted by Bino at March 15, 2007 03:53 PM
Thank you Weary.
King:
It isn’t the pathan or klingon way to do things in secret. That would be dishonorable. When I do something I make sure everyone knows it was me. That is why I… in my first post… said I was Rampart, so there would be no confusion.
Meanwhile, as I had posted earlier, Russia has greatly slowed down work on Iran’s reactor. Iran tried to pay them in Euros and they said Nyet. Fuel supply also stopped.
This great game is going to be a dirty one.
Posted by The Questioner at March 15, 2007 10:58 PM
Here is a noble video clip (it’s quite short so you shouldn’t bother making popcorn) from Al Aqsa TV (the Hamas television station) broadcast last week. I strongly recommend you watch it:
http://www.memritv.org/search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=1398#
If you don’t want to watch it, just click the “transcript” link to enjoy such uplifting dialogue as:
Interviewer: What did mama do?
Dhoha: She committed martyrdom.
Interviewer: She killed Jews, right?
Interviewer: How many did she kill, Muhammad?
Muhammad: Huh?
Interviewer: How many Jews did mama kill?
Muhammad: This many…[holds up fingers]
Interviewer: How many is that?
Muhammad: Five.
Interviewer: Do you love mama? Do you miss mama? Where is mama, Muhammad?
Muhammad: In Paradise.
I suppose I can see why Shazam is upset that I’m not keen on having my country fund this perpetual cycle of death fetishists - these kids words must be sweet music to his ears.
Posted by Bino at March 16, 2007 08:42 AM
Christian fundamentalism in a nut shell:
“Our culture is superior. Our culture is superior because our religion is Christianity and that is the truth that makes men free.”
—Pat Buchanan, speech to the Christian Coalition, Sept. 1993, as reported in ADL Report, 1994
Posted by Weary at March 16, 2007 09:22 AM
That is basically any fundamentalist in a nutshell - our culture is superior because our god is the one true god. Be they Christian, Muslim, Jew (or miscellaneous!) – a fundy is fundy and that makes little kittens cry.
Posted by Bino at March 16, 2007 09:51 AM
Not if you accuse the kittens of emotionally manipulating the media first, and surgically remove their tear ducts to prevent a PR disaster
Posted by Tovy at March 16, 2007 09:59 AM
——- Interviewer: How many did she kill, Muhammad? … Interviewer: How many Jews did mama kill? … Muhammad: Five.
Heh… there’s something to that. Our military doesn’t track civilian casualties (or at least, it didn’t ‘till recently.) I often wonder why that is; I imagine it’s for PR reasons, and for the fact that for modern militaries, the deaths of civilians are accomplished cheaply and easily through reckless use of heavy weapons in areas where the deaths of civilians are assured. Again, I’m unconvinced that this approach to meting out death is any better or “morally / culturally superior” to the Palestinian method; it’s militarily superior because you don’t lose your own soldiers when you kill tens or hundreds of their soldiers or people.
In the end, though, you’re still killing lots of civilians. Whether you ‘light ‘em up’ from behind the targeting display in your helicopter gunship, or ‘martyr yourself’ in a coffee shop, you contribute to the cycle. As it stands, we fund the approach that is more effective at killing civilians (IDF) while sanctioning the approach that is far less effective, but likely arises in no small part due to the IDF’s military policies. Why the comfort with one, but not the other?
Unequivocal foreign policy requires that we sanction both. However, given the political volatility of any stance that compromises the “security” of Israel, it is unlikely that our billions of dollars in aid to Israel will ever be matched by a government commitment to ensure that he Israelis behave in a manner that is humane and conducive to peace without domination.
Posted by chatman at March 16, 2007 12:43 PM
Chatman,
You have the knack of being able to spot the hole (a gaping one in Bino’s last posts) in someone’s argument and elegantly exposing it for what it is. I commend you as I believe you do this honestly to the best of your ability even though I don’t always agree with you. Keep up the good work.
Regards,
Posted by guesswho at March 16, 2007 07:51 PM
Which gaping hole is that, guesswho?
The post I made about how fundamentalism of all stripes makes kittens (and unicorns!) cry, or the post with a link to the official TV channel of the current “leadership” of the Palestinian people?
You know – the one where 5-year-old kids are praising the bombing of a fucking falafel stand by mommy dearest?
Get you head screwed on straight. That is fucking child abuse.
Posted by Bino at March 16, 2007 10:16 PM
Ah Bino,
Emotions have gotten the best of you yet again. I see you are intent on attacking a comment NOT addressed to you instead of the three paragraph comment directly above it that responded to your posts.
Could it be that I am an infrequent poster and therefore you feel “safe” to attack me? Perhaps you think I do not have knowledge of the area, or the time, or the language skills, or whatever that prevents me from 1) searching the web for articles and 2) writing extensive responses to drivel coming from people like you. Does that make you feel good? I wonder if you are the same person for real or does your computer screen make you all-knowing in your mind.
Your fervent backing of all things Israel and consistent attacks on Islam are as fundamental as those things you state that you abhor. Find a mirror and figure out how to use it.
Perhaps you should discuss things with Chatman as he is the one that responded to your post, not me.
Regards,
Posted by guesswho at March 17, 2007 04:05 AM
Guesswho:
——I wonder if you are the same person for real or does your computer screen make you all-knowing in your mind.——-
I also wonder:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19
Posted by The Questioner at March 17, 2007 08:08 AM
That link was an explanation of Bino’s condition.
Posted by The Questioner at March 17, 2007 08:09 AM
Why are you people still wasting time responding to zionist neocon bino’s worthless posts? The guy is violently jerking his flaccid penis hoping Eric’s next article will be about Iran.
Posted by hedagem at March 17, 2007 09:11 AM
—-Why are you people still wasting time responding to zionist neocon bino’s worthless posts?—-
Because he’s a caricature and good for a laugh or two. Thats why.
Posted by The Questioner at March 17, 2007 09:34 AM
Bino asked
“Which gaping hole is that, guesswho?”
Do you really want to know Bino, well okay!
Its that cavity in your posterior where your HEAD is buried 99.999999% of the time.
Posted by oldfan at March 17, 2007 12:15 PM
Oldfan - that is so unfunny I can only assume Clamfart helped you craft it.
Hegadem - your posts add value!
Father of Palestinian Suicide Bomber to Hamas TV: My Son Refused to Abort the Operation, Saying He Saw the Black-Eyed Virgins of Paradise on the Hood of His Car
Following are excerpts from an interview with the father of Palestinian suicide bomber Tareq Hamid, which aired on Al-Aqsa TV on March 6, 2007:
Tareq’s father: The operation that Tareq carried out took place on April 28, 2004, on a Wednesday. It was carried out after surveillance, which showed that a bus of settlers would come from Kisufim to Kfar Darom. Tareq got ready in a car with explosives, intending to crash into the bus. Circumstances delayed him from reaching the bus. But, Allah be praised… He saw the jeep behind the bus, and he immediately turned to it. The moment he saw that the bus was gone… All his thoughts were focused on carrying out the operation…
[…]
Interviewer: So, he turned towards the jeep…
Tareq’s father: He didn’t hesitate for a moment. Some of the brothers, who were doing the surveillance and filming, told me they had said to him: “Tareq, come back, the bus is gone. Get back, and we will do it another time.” He said to them: “I swear by Allah that I see the black-eyed virgins of Paradise on the hood of my car, so how can I possibly go back?” Of course, Tareq didn’t return, and, Allah be praised, he crashed into the jeep, which led, according to what the Zionist enemy admitted, to the killing of six of them.
[…]
Some people claim that all these young mujahideen who blow themselves up are desperate people with no money and no homes. These claims are wrong. These are lies and clear Zionist propaganda. All the mujahideen I came to know - and we pray that Allah will unite us with them in Paradise - are the finest of Palestinian society. In addition, they all have homes, money, and so on. They lack nothing. The only thing they need is to reach Paradise, by means of defense and martyrdom for the sake of Allah.
http://www.memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=1401
Posted by Bino at March 19, 2007 09:39 AM
See all?
THIS is why we talk to this guy. Throw this galli-ka-kutta a bone and BHOO BHOO BHOOO, barking at the moon again…. lol. Never fails.
And it took you 2 days for this come-back, loser?
And now for the Bino Tovey 69 show…..
Posted by The Questioner at March 19, 2007 11:46 AM
Go complain to Margolis.
Galli ka Kutta.
Posted by The Questioner at March 19, 2007 11:47 AM
Yes Clamfart - 2 days. I’ve been away from the forum for two days. You know, doing stuff, like living. You might want to re-evaluate who the loser is, what with you waiting with baited breath, counting the days until my next post and all.
Posted by Bino at March 19, 2007 01:11 PM
—-I’ve been away from the forum for two days. You know, doing stuff, like living.——-
Learn to multi-task. The internet is all around you and can be accessed from everywhere, even when one is mobile.
People who can’t walk and chew gum at the same time often end up squished under something bigger than themselves.
Posted by The Questioner at March 19, 2007 04:33 PM
Since the topic is taking up some time, I’d suggest you check out this documentary by Robert Baer.
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/cult_of_the_suicide_bomber/
The first suicide bombings were impromptu acts military desperation.
This later morphed into the phenomenon we see today. One thing is certain, every family member of every suicide bomber is infinitely proud of their son/daughter/brother/sister and their actions. Shocked?
Why?
This concept of pride is not alien to us Westerners. One of our society’s highest honors is to say “He died for his country” but then we delude ourselves into believing that all the people ‘our hero’ killed were guilty and deserved to die.
Of course for any of this to make sense you have to view the situation through the lens of blind hatred – only then does it make sense to kill innocents.
That’s how we Westerner’s can simply shrug “That’s the way the cookie crumbles” when 10,000 Arabs are killed by Israel or US military actions while we simultaneously scream “Act of War!” when a suicide bomber kills 10 people.
DCanuck
Posted by D. Canuck at March 19, 2007 04:42 PM
Bino,
To save you the time replying, my post was not about taking sides in the Israel / Arab conflict. I’m just pointing out what fucking hypocrites we Westerners are, with us Canadians near the top of that ignoble list.
DCanuck
Posted by D. Canuck at March 19, 2007 04:49 PM
In 1951, the director general of the Israeli Health Ministry, Dr. Chaim Sheba flew to America and returned with 7 x-ray machines, supplied to him by the American army.
They were to be used in a mass atomic experiment with an entire generation of Sephardi youths to be used as guinea pigs. Every Sephardi child was to be given 35,000 times the maximum dose of x-rays through his head. For doing so, the American government paid the Israeli government 300,000 Israeli liras a year. The entire Health budget was 60,000 liras. The money paid by the Americans is equivalent to billions of dollars today.
To fool the parents of the victims, the children were taken away on “school trips” and their parents were later told the x-rays were a treatment for the scourge of scalpal ringworm. 6,000 of the children died shortly after their doses were given, the many of the rest developed cancers that killed them over time and are still killing them now. While living, the victims suffered from disorders such as epilepsy, amnesia, Alzheimer’s disease, chronic headaches and psychosis.
Yes, that is the subject of the documentary, “100,000 RADIATIONS”, in cold terms. It is another matter to see the victims on the screen. ie. To watch the Moroccan lady describe what getting 35,000 times the dose of allowable x-rays in her head feels like.
“I screamed make the headache go away. Make the headache go away. Make the headache go away. But it never went away.”
To watch the bearded man walk hunched down the street.
“I’m in my fifties and everyone thinks I’m in my seventies. I have to stoop when I walk so I won’t fall over. They took my youth away with those x-rays.”
To watch the old lady who administered the doses to thousands of children.
“They brought them in lines. First their heads were shaved and smeared in burning gel. Then a ball was put between their legs and the children were ordered not to drop it, so they wouldn’t move. The children weren’t protected over the rest of their bodies. There were no lead vests for them. I was told I was doing good by helping to remove ringworm. If I knew what dangers the children were facing, I would never have cooperated. Never!”
Because the whole body was exposed to the rays, the genetic makeup of the children was often altered, affecting the next generation. We watch the woman with the distorted face explain, “All three of my children have the same cancers my family suffered. Are you going to tell me that’s a coincidence?”
Everyone notices that Sephardi women in their fifties today, often have sparse patchy hair, which they try to cover with henna. Most of us assumed it was just a characteristic of Sephardi women. We watch the woman on the screen wearing a baseball-style hat. She places a picture of a lovely young teenager with flowing black hair opposite the lens. “That was me before my treatment. Now look at me.” She removes her hat. Even the red henna can’t cover the horrifying scarred bald spots.
The majority of the victims were Moroccan because they were the most numerous of the Sephardi immigrants. The generation that was poisoned became the country’s perpetual poor and criminal class. It didn’t make sense. The Moroccans who fled to France became prosperous and highly educated. The common explanation was that France got the rich, thus smart ones. The real explanation is that every French Moroccan child didn’t have his brain cells fried with gamma rays.
The film made it perfectly plain that this operation was no accident. The dangers of x-rays had been known for over forty years. We read the official guidelines for x-ray treatment in 1952.
The maximum dose to be given a child in Israel was .5 rad. There was no mistake made. The children were deliberately poisoned. Only Sephardi children received the x-rays.
“I was in class and the men came to take us on a tour. They asked our names. The Ashkenazi children were told to return to their seats. The dark children were put on the bus.”
etc. etc.
Posted by The Questioner at March 19, 2007 04:56 PM
The racism that is the foundation of Yahoodistan, is breath-taking.
Yahoodi irradiating other Yahoodi because some had darker skin. LOL
I think everyone remembers that clip shown some years ago on CNN… a white Jew doc taking a bag full of blood, just donated by an Ethiopian Jewish soldier (black, of course) and tossing it into the trash. Unfortunately for the doc, it was caught on film and the blacks rioted.
Imagine their attitude towards any non-yahoodi.
Posted by The Questioner at March 19, 2007 05:25 PM
And now that I’ve done my bit for the Isreal-Palestinian cause, here is me getting closer to the topic. (topic was again de-railed by non other than the resident Galli-ka-Kutta, Bino)
The BJP coming to power would be a good thing for Pakistan.
1. BJP is decisive.
2. BJP made Pakistan a declared nuclear power. We owe them.
3. BJP’s Hindutva agenda removes the facade India presents to the world of a tolerant nation.
4. It is easier to have an equation with a BJP led Govt. There is no bull involved (yeah, I made a joke).
Posted by The Questioner at March 19, 2007 05:45 PM
the bull is going to continue regardless of whether its BJP or Congress. There is one indian soldier for every ten people in kashmir. classic example of an occupation; and a successful one at that.
the BJP will definately make life alot more difficult for the indian muslims. in my opinion, its their house to burn
we have our own runaway military related problems
Posted by _RealityBites_ at March 20, 2007 05:46 AM
Clamfart - I found you on another board, posting as Verginne:
http://hyeforum.com/lofiversion/index.php?t14297-200.html
Also, have you seen the new child martyr who will soon shake Israel to the core? It’s a girl!
http://www.thememriblog.org/blog_personal/en/972.htm
Precious little thing, isn’t she?
Posted by Bino at March 20, 2007 08:32 AM
Again, 24 hours to think up a come-back….
Your “life” getting in the way of your using the net??? LOL
Anyway…. “Yahoodistan” and “Yahoodi” are common names.
I did notice you in the archives looking over your shoulder… maybe this is Rampart… maybe THAT is Rampart… LOL.
As I explained, I don’t hide and I don’t lie… I have no need to.
This person you found isn’t me.
Why don’t you just ask me where else I can be found? I’ll tell you. LOL
On second thought…. why should I? Go chase shadows.
Posted by The Questioner at March 20, 2007 02:08 PM
Ha! This line had me convinced it was you:
“Vergin’s political viewpoint is notorious and as a result [he] has been the recipient of several warnings.”
You must have a twin!
I have no clue WTF you are talking about WRT looking over my shoulder in the archives though.
Hey, OT - Good news…Russia Drops A Bomb On Iran - here is a link to the Joooo York Times:
Enjoy!
Posted by Bino at March 20, 2007 02:58 PM
—— I have no clue WTF you are talking about WRT looking over my shoulder in the archives though.——
Man….. Why do you lot keep assuming I can’t back up whatever I say? It isn’t my style to give links and quote chapter and verse… but if you insist.
———————————-
Posted by Bino at January 30, 2007 08:22 AM
Answering some poor guy called “Mr.Ted”…
———How funny was it to read an entry by Mr. Ted which, for no reason, considering I haven’t uttered a word yet, asking ppl to ignore me!…. If any of High IQ posse (and you know who you are)….. ——————
LOL.
You leave bird-droppings all over the place and then forget about them?
All of your attempts to impress me into believing you are some bright spark, have failed.
Posted by The Questioner at March 20, 2007 03:24 PM
Some racist Pakistani assclown whose only source of pride is nukes thinks I’m dim? Oh, woe is me!
First off, not remembering a post and asking to WTF you refer is quite different that claiming never to have laid said post, but your positioning makes you feel superior so I’ll let the baby have its bottle. Good boy, Rampart. You sure showed me!
Oh, no, wait…YOU DIDN’T! Let me take that bottle away, little one.
I just checked that thread and…It has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU!
“Maybe this is Rampart? Maybe that is Rampart?” I like how you delude yourself in to believing you’re important enough for anyone to give a steaming turd about, but you aren’t, stupid.
Do you ever get tired of being wrong? This is just like all your self-centered, paranoid posts from before claiming multiple posters were the same person.
Hahahaha! Hey, keep it up, genius! Eric’s gonna close this place down in no time if you keep acting a fool…and I’ve got nothing but time to play with the rocks in your head.
Posted by Bino at March 20, 2007 04:03 PM
some hedagem-type math…
(bino + the questioner) - decency = Comment Section Closed
You guys are both getting to be pathetic.
Posted by D. Canuck at March 20, 2007 04:47 PM
Bino… your spittle is mucking up my monitor screen. Please get a grip.
Posted by The Questioner at March 20, 2007 04:56 PM
Bino:
The very fact that you are the only one still calling me “Rampart” shows the ghosts that are haunting you.
Yup. I showed you.
And really… why would Eric close the section down? I haven’t been abusive, have I? I just posted a little anti-jewish truth and pointed out what a little liar Bino is.
But if Eric feels he should close this place down.. then go for it, by all means. It has only turned into a muslim-vs-jew mud-pit. Not worth much as it stands.
Posted by The Questioner at March 20, 2007 05:04 PM
Oh, and btw, Margolis most likely won’t be updating this place with a new article this week.
Because it is again about India/Pakistan.
And we can all read it here:
http://www.bigeye.com/foreignc.htm
This one is a 3 out of 10. LOL
Posted by The Questioner at March 20, 2007 05:49 PM
See how nice and clean it can be without the comments section and the likes of Zionists hogging the place?
Look here… all of Eric’s wisdom, without the added crap:
http://www.bigeye.com/fcorrlst.htm
Posted by The Questioner at March 20, 2007 05:58 PM
Dear Eric Margolis,
As someone who has read your column since the 1980’s in the Toronto Sun I find this “Comments Section” to be an unnecessary detriment to your otherwise professional work.
Those of us who wish to participate intelligently no longer have much desire to get involved in this childishness. We’ve lost many a good person and the resulting conversation at this site has suffered greatly, all because of the relentless ignorance of a few.
If it is possible to permanently ban a person’s computer, I ask that you do so to protect the integrity of your website. If not, it would serve you well to close this Comments Section as it only detracts from the excellence of your column and the seriousness of the matters you write about.
The Internet is a haven for fools and nutcases. It would behoove you to distance yourself from these lowbrow elements.
Sincerely,
DCanuck
A Longtime Fan
Posted by D. Canuck at March 21, 2007 11:13 AM
Canuck:
Quit trying to play the wounded hero.
————————-
Bino, it seems you’ve been promoted to Oracle! Congratulations, oh Wise One!
Posted by D. Canuck at January 11, 2007 04:02 PM
————————-
Nice speech. Specially after cheering on one of the persons most responsible for all the trash here.
And listen… it isn’t possible for Margolis to ban anyone without banning everyone. OK?
He can, of course, shut the place down. And I am fine with that.
Meanwhile, you can also make yourself scarce. You have said many times, that you are leaving. More than once. And yet, you don’t.
Now is a good time. Go.
Posted by The Questioner at March 21, 2007 05:01 PM
Anyone here tries out any Zionist/Yahoodi crap, they will be challenged and their ideas will be countered.
Copy/paste will be answered by copy/paste. You start, I start. You stop, I stop.
Many will not be able to take these alternative anti-Zionist views (see above). They should leave now.
Of course, if the comments section is shut down, then I and others won’t have to go to all this trouble.
But as long as it isn’t… enjoy the ride.
Posted by The Questioner at March 21, 2007 05:20 PM
It’s a pity that Eric again hasn’t posted his most recent column here (thanks, Questioner, for the heads up). I presume this is in response to all the off topic vulgarity. But come on, Eric. We don’t deserve collective punishment any more than the Palestinians. Let Bino continue to be a creep, and The Questioner a loudmouth. We adults can take it.
Chatman: do you really think it’s sensible to say that “efficient autocracy may be a necessary prerequisite to effective government of Asian peoples”? Perhaps you think this has something to do with the shapes of their skulls?
Posted by hyperbolus at March 21, 2007 10:11 PM
Hyperbolus:
—-“Chatman: do you really think it’s sensible to say that “efficient autocracy may be a necessary prerequisite to effective government of Asian peoples”? Perhaps you think this has something to do with the shapes of their skulls?”
Sensible? On reflection, probably not.
The comments were not intended to be based in racism, but in culture. I was born to South Asian parents myself, and having worked with many Indian and Pakistani clients, it seems to me that many Asian peoples are strangely comfortable with a degree of blind authoritarianism. Most Indian people tend to respect authority figures with a greater absolution than we do here in the West. Such submission and deference, be it to parents, teachers, or leaders, is viewed as a positive cultural trait. Some of my cousins in India are still not allowed to ask questions in classes, for fear that such questioning is a sign of restiveness or challenge to a teacher’s classroom authority. This is not a policy of individual classrooms or teachers, but entire schools.
Indira Gandhi instituted her sham “emergency” in the 70’s; she closed the press, jailed political opponents, and basically imposed martial law for 18 months. You’d think that people would look back on such times with horror, but this is not the case; it still amazes me how many Indians who lived through that autocratic time praised Gandhi’s policy because “the trains finally ran on time.”Even today, there are also many South Asians who wish that the military would take over governance of their country. To the Indian Army’s great credit, they perceive such suggestions with great embarrassment.
In reflecting on these ideas, however, I realize that the desire for efficient autocracy, at least in India, may very well be the consequence of suffering under elected but ineffective governments. If India were run by inefficient totalitarians, it is possible that Indian citizens would whisper about the wonders of democracy, just as many Indians today scratch their heads and occasionally dare to wonder if totalitarianism, Chinese style, might have been better for their country in the long term.
In my view, as ineffective as Indian government often is, plurality central governance over a limited federal system is still the best choice for a country of such massive political, religious, and cultural diversity. But then, I look at what the Chinese have been up to, and I find myself wondering again what “enlightened autocracy” might have accomplished on the subcontinent.
Questioner:
A healthy India is crucially important to the health of the region; there are more Muslims in India than Pakistan, and over a sixth of the world’s population resides on the subcontinent. You should think outside your own borders for a moment, and realize that peace and prosperity on the subcontinent will come from mutual prosperity of Pakistan and India. BJP governments are likely to antithetical to such peace or prosperity, and would be very bad for Indian minorities.
Shiv Sena and its BJP umbrella are bad not only for India, but for the whole world. Shiv Sena, in particular, is no better than Al Queda in my view; those fools need to be kept as far from the political process as possible. And as for BJP, it is telling that, given the myriad problems India faces, BJP is keen to promise that they will do “something” about Ayodha…. this is similar to how Republicans can only promise to do “something” about gay marriage. These are parties capable of little more than needless hate-mongering through wedge issues, and under the guise of a religion. A billion of the world’s people deserve better, and Pakistan hardly benefits from a cadre of Hindu fundamentalists at the helm of India’s formidable military and economic powers.
Posted by chatman at March 21, 2007 11:13 PM
Hyperbolus:
I happen to agree somewhat with Chatman. He said:
—-Such submission and deference, be it to parents, teachers, or leaders, is viewed as a positive cultural trait. Some of my cousins in India are still not allowed to ask questions in classes, for fear that such questioning is a sign of restiveness or challenge to a teacher’s classroom authority.——
Yes, it kills creativity. But you get some discipline in return. Most of us in India/Pakistan will never be Mozarts anyway so it is no great loss. However, most of us learn the value of society’s chain of command and not questioning our elders, among other things. I believe it is better this way because whenever we (in Pakistan) have let loose, one sees the common people turn instantly stupid (I’m talking about “democracy” and politics). Intelligence can be mass-mimicked. And having a non-questioning attitude and respect for authority is the best way to do it.
The people who really are creative and bright, do face a little more resistance than they would in Amreekan society, for example. But that is all the more better for them. It sharpens them considerably.
And this is true of all Asians, not just the Subcontinent.
This also explains why Asians (good workers who make better products) and Western society (creative people) need each other.
Posted by The Questioner at March 22, 2007 12:29 AM
actually, I’d give Eric’s article a 9
Thats because he’s put the situation exactly as it is.
Alot of my family has been in the army and theres one thing I should point out. The army and the generals are two different beings. The generals are basically toeing Mushy’s line but doesnt seem that that situation is going to continue for long.
The army is from the masses and has the same opinions as the masses. Mushy is very very close to tipping over. If it was upto me, I’d personally give him a push in the right direction.
Pakistan’s present or future isnt as dependent upon the US as it is made out to be.
Posted by _RealityBites_ at March 22, 2007 05:55 AM
every tyrant or dictator in history has tried to put on the cloak of “daddy knows best”.
but the facts on the ground are that its much much easier to push around dictatorships than democracies.
Mushy talks about due process; who gave him the right to topple an elected government, he swore allegiance to?
I’m not exactly saying that the coterie of Pakistani politicians are saints, but this guy is no savior he paints himself to be.
he’s just the king croc in a pond of other crocs.
Posted by _RealityBites_ at March 22, 2007 06:01 AM
who can coo like a dove when he needs to.
Posted by _RealityBites_ at March 22, 2007 06:04 AM
Reality:
—-Pakistan’s present or future isnt as dependent upon the US as it is made out to be.——
That is exactly why I gave Eric a 3 out of 10.
It is time people realize that US is no longer our “maader/pidar”.
And yes, we are all Crocs. Look what we did to Coach.
Posted by The Questioner at March 22, 2007 06:52 AM
Reality:
Even though I believe Mushi did the right thing… have you read Naeem Bokhari’s letter? About the CJ habitually threatening police officials and senior bureaucrats with contempt of court. And about his corrupt good-for-nothing son?
Like I was saying.. even though I am happy to see Judges and lawyers take their lumps (it was about time), it is very important that they resist and protest.
If it hadn’t been for their protesting there was a chance that Bhagwan Das would be ignored. So it is all good. Mushi deserved a hard time over this. I say this as principle… one must always show resistance to the Govt. or else they will squish you one day.
My family knows Justice Bhagwan Das personally… now that he is back, I can guarantee you justice will be done.
Posted by The Questioner at March 22, 2007 07:02 AM
Maader/Pidar = Mommy/Daddy (Persian)
Coach = Bob Woolmer (now they say he was strangled?)
Mushi = Croc
CJ = Chief Justice (a whack job, this one)
Naeem Bokhari = lawyer/tv personality who used to go jogging on the same beach I went to.
Justice Bhagwan Das = Good guy. Hindu… which leads to the question what will they do if something happens to Mushi and Chairman Senate and we suddenly have a Hindu gentleman as President of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan? LOL
Posted by The Questioner at March 22, 2007 07:12 AM
9/11 = INSIDE JOB
Only zionist Bingo keeps denying it because he knows it was masterminded by his zionist masters.
Posted by hedagem at March 29, 2007 10:57 AM
LOL. You’re insane.
Posted by Bino at March 29, 2007 11:01 AM
Ussama Who???
Posted by hedagem at March 30, 2007 08:49 PM