According to every damn article about France in the Economist, they are in dire need of serious economic reform and it doesn’t appear as though Royal is serious in this regard. Electing her, as Eric notes, promises more of the same, which will only make the needed reforms that much more critical (as well as harder to implement) for whomever follows her. But we all know it’s way easier to kick the can down the road - human nature.
Posted by hegadumb at April 23, 2007 02:32 PM
“French cannot much longer get away with their derisory 35-hour work week, 5-weeks paid vacations and innumerable holidays, nor full pensions at 59 or 60. Not when Chinese are working 18 hours a day, seven days a week.”
Mr. Margolis:
Are you suggesting that we (in the developed West) return to industrial revolution-era working conditions? That would be very nice for the few people who control our large companies and would benefit the most from such an arrangement, but not so nice for the average working person.
18 hours per day seven days per week amounts to not much more than slavery. The only thing workers would be doing is working and sleeping, with barely enough time to eat and excrete.
As with any debate like this, it is all about balance. Without a discussion of where that balance may lie, exhortations about working harder leads to exploitation of people.
Posted by Weary at April 23, 2007 03:53 PM
Mr. Margolis not only points out the rift in political ideology for France but also for Western Liberal democracies. The left/right dichotomy has turned into a polarized state by design in order to, in my opinion; divide the citizens of liberal democracies. What is the goal of such division? Quite simply, if we the people see our political adversaries in a radical or reactionary light then compromise is not possible. If compromise is not possible, the status quo is maintained and the individual’s in high office have justified their existence once again under the rubric of ideology. The death of democracy takes place when the people allow themselves to be manipulated the supposed servants they elect to represent them, every tyranny starts this way, just look at Rome.
Posted by Frank at April 23, 2007 03:56 PM
I too take umbrage with Eric’s suggestion that a 35 hour work week is an economic achilles heel in a driven world. He spoke as a productivity-obsessed Yank who serves the corporate interests at the expense of self and family. Sure we need productivity but at what cost. Balance est le secret tout le monde.
What is most important is quality of life. The French have a MUCH higher enjoyment of life than the thrill seeking and violence prone Americans — they take time to smell the lavendar.
This is not to say system rigidities need to be shaken out of the system. They do. But really, the French for the most part to be envied; as far as I know no one (except Bush neocons) reviles them. Would like to say the Yanks are envied and not reviled but I cannot tell a lie. I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said “Every man has two countries - his own and France.” Je suis d’accord.
Posted by shazam at April 23, 2007 04:25 PM
It seems to me that Eric has toned down a BIT his anti-left stance and learned to appriciate SOME things we commonly refer to as “left” os “socialist”. I am sincerely glad for that and I do agree with this article.
It is all about the balance and the compromise. Some people from the left tend to think that goverment(s) create wealth and money out of thin air and that their standard of living is determined on the goodwill of their goverments and not their own hard work. On the other hand, some people from the right view other people as numbers, a comodity, a mere means in production and slaves that should work 18 hours a day seven days a week at the expense of their lives, health, environment. Well, both is bad and there is good and bad in each and as long as we view it as black and white (like they teach us to do) we will not be able to open our minds and see things beyond “left” or “right” but as “good” and “bad”. Should we criticise Cuba for having better education, health care system, lower mortality and higher life expectancy than US? No, we should learn from them. Should we criticise US for having higher economic growth and economic standard of living than Cuba? No, we should learn from them. Thank god for Scandinavian countries for the proof that socialism doesn’t necessarily imply a failing economy and low economic growth, if implemented properly and not rigidly and inflexibly as the “traditional” left would like them to do. The best thing that could happen to US (and hence the world) would be a good (European style) socialist or left wing party that would shift their “center” more to the left (and that is NOT the democrats), as much as the best thing that could happen to France would be a good (fiscal) right wing party to propel their economy caused by socialist suffocation and all those ridiculous subsidies.
Now, speaking about Sarkozy, I cannot comment on his “open hostility to the muslims” (or not) beacause I don’t follow french politics upclose, but what I can comment is that we seem to be falling into a trap of calling “antimuslim” anything or anybody who has to deal with any tug that happens to be muslim (just remember that every Israel’s answer to any Europen criticism of its policies is always the same: “Europeans are antisemitic”). I can tell you one thing, if a muslim person doesn’t pay for a train ticket and police arrests her, it is NOT a french repression against muslims it is police arresting a thief. If riots break out and rioters start putting things and someone else’s property on fire and destroying it (whether they are muslim or not) they are not “revolutionaries” and “fighters for justice and rights and freedom”, they ARE (as Sarkozy correctly called them) thugs and criminals who have no respect for someone else’s property and hard work. Guess what…the person whose “compact car” you have just destroyed is not a rich slaveowner but another poor guy who (for a difference) decided to work for his money and managed to buy that “compact car” to make his life easier.
I do agree with Eric that a country like France will not be able to compete with those that make their “slaves” work 18/7. Unfortunatelly owning slaves has always been more productive than freeing people (maybe a reason why socialism slows down economic growth). And unfortunatelly, in this global world if you do not compete with others economically, it will be your dowfall and end in every possible way.
Posted by From_Nowhere at April 23, 2007 05:00 PM
Royal, easy on the eyes, she’s going to win. Sarkozy looks like a mad man leading a rebellion in Les Mis, as witnessed while jammed into insanely tiny seats at the Royal Alex in TO like a ryanair flight on a bar hop run to dublin…
Posted by bigsugar999 at April 24, 2007 10:47 AM
LOL, bigsugar!
Posted by hegadumb at April 24, 2007 11:33 AM
France is a horrible country. Their political system is a train wreck. Center, left, right, top, bottom, south, east, west, center middle…enough already. Their cheese tastes horrible. You walk into a Paris McDonald’s and it almost feels like being in Afrika. French women are cold, materialistic and arrogant. Their cities are ugly and worn down. French waiters are ultra rude. French TV is full of boring yawner programs about art, culture and literature, who the hell cares about that nonsense? Boycut France. C’est un gang de cave.
Posted by Rabinovitz at April 24, 2007 12:02 PM
Rabinovitz,
Please confirm your statement … ” you walk in to a Paris Mcdonalds ..”
I agree with most of your other postings, but going to McDonalds anywhere is just a step above watching NASCAR, sitting in the bed of an old chev truck, on a B&W TV in your cousins trailors front yard, while drinkin’ Bud @ noon on Tuesday.
Posted by Poseidon_dude at April 24, 2007 01:33 PM
Do people still have 35 hour work weeks? I remember working 35 hours a week back in the Eighties when I was a unionized apprentice glazier. But every job I’ve ever had since then is minimum 45 hours a week. Only dog-f#ckers work 35 hour weeks. Also, a person who works 35 hour weeks and takes 5 weeks of holidays a year, probably doesn’t have that great a work ethic in the first place. “Productivity?!?! Oh my Lord! I need to sit down!”
Americans hate France and the French. It is most fashionable, in the most unfashionable circles, to hate France. Ever since France “betrayed” the US by not supporting the War in Iraq a person would have to be a fool to speak out in support of France in America.
About five years ago I rented a Dennis Miller comedy CD. It was a horribly unfunny hate-filled rant by an unrepentant gleeful war-monger. Listening to Miller you’d think the French are a nation of child molesters. FOX News, in their character assassination of John Kerry, kept saying he would be the “First French President” knowing that there could be no lower insult.
And finally, to buttress my argument from highest plateau of intellectualism, I draw upon “Talladega Nights: The Ballad of Ricky Bobby” and point out that the bad guy was indeed French. Say no more.
DCanuck
“…and zis iss my ‘usband.”
(total silence, except for one lone beer bottle dropping on the floor)
Posted by D. Canuck at April 24, 2007 05:10 PM
… it started with forcing the US to bypass French airspace to bomb Libya … and likely even well before that …
Posted by bigsugar999 at April 24, 2007 05:31 PM
Where I work it’s a 37 hour work week and 5 weeks of holidays for those with the seniority. Obviously a pretty good union. Meanwhile my fiance works at Wal-Mart and full time is between 28-35 hours a week. In 1860s Ontario it was a 6 day 72 hour week for every worker. The only day you got off was Sunday and you weren’t allowed to do anything that day except go to church!
Posted by Paul Whiteside at April 24, 2007 10:07 PM
France’s political system has one truly democratic credential: the 2nd round vote. All democracies should have this. In the US the elections aren’t decided by the Democrats nor the Republicans, they’re decided by the 3rd party. If it’s Perot Democrats win. If it’s Nader Republicans win. If I was a Democrat I’d be raising a ton of money and finding a right winger to front an anti-immigration party. If I was a Republican I’d be giving my money to a left wing anti-war party.
Posted by Paul Whiteside at April 24, 2007 10:12 PM
Everybody seems concerned about the 35 hour work week, a more imminent danger is posed by the radical Islamics who are immigrating and multiplying quickly in France and other European countries. Europeans and North Americans need to start educating themselves on what is happening; radical Islamists are taking advantage of the social system that many European countries provide. Has anybody else read the book WHILE EUROPE SLEPT HOW RADICAL ISLAM IS DESTROYING THE WEST FROM WITHIN by Bruce Bawer? It is an eyeopener. France needs someone who is willing to stand up and persecute people for crimes, no matter what their race or religion is. They can’t afford to keep turning the other cheek.
Posted by kimosavi at April 24, 2007 10:18 PM
Kimosavi:
I think you meant to say PROSECUTE, rather than persecute. The two words have a universe of difference with respect to meaning, and use of the latter would ensure continuing problems, rather than a bettering of the situation.
Posted by chatman at April 24, 2007 11:54 PM
kimosavi = Bino(vitz). Yet another of his manufactured personalities.
Yes, radical Islam is destroying the west from within, as opposed to radical Christianity and radical Judaism and radical Zionism, which is destroying the U.S. of A. from within.
Posted by Rabinovitz at April 25, 2007 07:54 AM
Rabinovitz/hegadem: Your paranoid delusion is trumped only by your idiocy.
Posted by hegadumb at April 25, 2007 09:57 AM
Prosecute is the correct word, thank you.
Kimosavi does not = Bino. I am a Canadian who wants to make sure we continue to have a democracy. I want my young daughter to grow up in a country with the freedom to choose and I don’t want white women to be treated as second rate citizens. Get the crime stats of who is committing rapes and other crimes in European countries, the majority are committed by Islamic men against white European women.
Any religion that is radical causes problems. However, the difference between radical Islamists and other religions is that people have no choice in Islam. Christians and Jews have the freedom to debate and question their religion without persecution.
Another interesting read is THE TROUBLE WITH ISLAM TODAY by Irshad Manji.
Posted by kimosavi at April 25, 2007 10:55 AM
kimosavi:
Re: I don’t want white women to be treated as second rate citizens.
White? Pretty hard not to read a lot in to that statement. I don’t want any women to be treated as second rate citizens, regardless of race or religion.
Re: Another interesting read is THE TROUBLE WITH ISLAM TODAY by Irshad Manji.
I found it a bit hard to read – she wrote while hyperventilating, apparently. I like her, but that book is so-so. I think Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s “The Caged Virgin” is a much better read.
Judging from your tone, you’d also enjoy Mark Steyn’s “America Alone”. The demographic projections for Europe are really wild and impossible to ignore. Russia, France, Holland, Belgium – they’re all changing very, very rapidly and will look markedly different in 2027.
Posted by hegadumb at April 25, 2007 11:03 AM
Eric ironically calls for compromise to be worked out over a traditional, two-hour French lunch - the very kind of cultural landmark that will disappear by ramping up the work-week and reducing the market to cut-throat competition. Should the French toast the demise of their own leisure?
Chatman: I left you a long response over on the Happy Birthday Europe board. I hope you read it, even if you are not interested in continuing the debate.
Posted by CalmHorizons at April 25, 2007 02:11 PM
Chatman: Good comments, so who do you think would be the best President for France? Integration is certainly a major problem in Europe. Sarkozy wants to work on it, but if he wins, there will probably be riots. Do you want to live in a society that is run by one major religion, which then limits your freedom of choice etc…?
I’m glad my original posting caused others to respond, obviously many people have differing views. I certainly do not profess to know a great deal about this topic. I’ve only started researching it more after I saw both Irshad Manji and Eric Margolis on the same day at the same venue, (and for you boys who don’t believe that, you can email them, I believe the date was Thursday Feb 14 or 15th of ‘07) Only by researching and learning about everybody’s point of view and learning the facts will we be able to accomplish anything in a rational manner. Which seems contrary to some of the postings I’ve seen.
Ciao Boys
Posted by kimosavi at April 26, 2007 10:23 AM
——Ciao Boys——
Bye Bino.
Posted by The Questioner at April 26, 2007 10:30 AM
I agree to an extent with you Shazam, but there is also something to be said about informing ourselves about the norms and sensitivities of other cultures.
It is incumbent and especially so for western personalities to educate themselves as to the appropriateness of their particular actions in the public realm.
Call it fundamentalism if you wish but people with ancient cultures find it highly disturbing to have their culture disrespected, it is akin to disrespect to their person.
Posted by oldfan at April 26, 2007 04:53 PM
Kimosavi is a rabid Albertan Bible thumping christian horde? Well lets hops so, because with the exhisting peanut gallery running madley in all directions, it has been nice to read some posts that stay on topic if not for a couple of lines.
At least France may have a choice in governments, here in the real Alberta wilds, 75% of the oil-addled rednecks will blindly vote for the Conservatives without even thinking about the issues.
God, I wish the Rhino party was still around. At least they made sense.
Posted by Poseidon_dude at April 26, 2007 05:30 PM
Chatman to the rescue, thanks.
This week posts with understated but nevertheless racist overtones by Kimosavi have been something. Being new to the board (perhaps) I have cut her some slack.
Your reply to her was eloquent and rational and hoped that would nudge the discussion to a more informative plain. But for Bino who misses no opportunity to grind his personal axe and inflect the discourse.
Kimosavi you say:
“Only by researching and learning about everybody’s point of view and learning the facts will we be able to accomplish anything in a rational manner.”
I sincerely hope you really take your own advice, it may go a long way to dispelling the notions that you may hold towards being a woman, being white and being Christian, and your attitude towards another religion.
A wise man once said something to this effect:
Let him who is without sin among you be the first to cast the stone.
Posted by oldfan at April 26, 2007 06:03 PM
To Margolis:
Since you know my race quite well, you are aware of my rules of engagement.
Apologies, yet again.
Posted by The Questioner at April 28, 2007 04:47 PM
Bush does not want true democracy in the Middle East. What he really wants are puppet regimes that will sell out their own people to amerikan interests.
Posted by Rabinovitz at April 30, 2007 08:54 AM