There are more Egyptian relics overseas in British and U.S. museums, than in Egypt. They would have taken the pyramids too if they could, but since they couldn’t, they like to claim they were built by aliens or slaves.
Posted by Rabinovitz at May 7, 2007 02:39 PM
Good article. And thanks for answering my question from last week about Turkey’s military-business relations. I had no idea that academia was also part of the inner circle.
I think Pakistan can learn a few things from our Turk brothers and sisters.
Btw, Mushi speaks Turkish like a native and is a great admirer of Ataturk.
——Caught in a tawdry scandal over a girlfriend, Wolfowitz is struggling to hang on as chief. ——-
His GF… she an Iranian of some kind? Anyone?
Name sounds Iranian….
——*Learning that poor, little Jamaica and wretched Haiti have become the world’s most crime-infested nations, and the whole Caribbean is now a major crime zone, is really tragic.——-
Look what happened to poor Woolmer. And look at the way the buffoons botched up the investigation.
Posted by The Questioner at May 7, 2007 03:35 PM
Good Article on Turkey, however let us not forget that Attatuk mangaed to trasform a decaying empire into a modern state. Somthing that the Romans could not do, and somthing that the USA must do.
As for Haiti and Jamiaca, a simular situation took place in a little country called Cuba in the late 40s and 50s. A little bit of Fidel can go a long way.
Posted by Frank at May 7, 2007 05:12 PM
It is hardly W’s “War on Drugs”.
The term first appeared in 1973. In 1988, Reagan created the Office of National Drug Control Policy the director of which we laughingly know as the Drug Czar. The position was raised to cabinet-level status by Bill Clinton in 1993.
Jamaica (Kingston, specifically) was an armpit of violence long before W got in to power.
Posted by hegadumb at May 7, 2007 09:00 PM
>…to transform Turkey from a Muslim into
>a western European nation.
Turkey a western European nation? A small part of European geography notwithstanding, Turkey is not in Europe and Turks are not Europeans. 2/3 of Russia is in Asia and that in no way makes Russians an Asian people.
It’s hard to say for individuals, but on the whole, Turks are most definitely not part of Western civilization and surely not European. They have nothing in common culturally or ethnically with Europe. The Turks are a central Asian people that are relatively a very recent addition to Asia Minor, itself a region considered part of Western civilization going back to the Greeks. Understandably, they want to join the crowd on the greener side of the fence. Perhaps they should attempt to make their side more prosperous. Turkey is a powerhouse in its neighbourhood, they should form their own economic union and be a force for change in the Middle East, which is full of potentially prosperous nations.
Posted by chris at May 7, 2007 11:23 PM
the turkish secular thing is a blow back to arab rebellion during the first world war.
thats another thing we can attribute to the saud family. that and palestine.
ata turk and the turks fought very bravely in galipoli and thats why the turks are so fond of him.
I’ve always thought that turkey should look to getting better ties with the other turks in asia instead of looking towards europe.
Posted by _RealityBites_ at May 8, 2007 04:18 AM
And the broom sweeps away the trash.
Here is some reaction in France:
Anti-Sarkozy protests turned violent overnight in France’s second city of Lyon, in Lille, Toulouse, Nantes and Rennes.
More than 500 cars were set alight in cities and suburbs across the country, according to police reports gathered by AFP, many more than the 70 to 100 vehicles that are attacked on an average night in France.
In the hours that followed his victory speech on Sunday, police said 730 vehicles burned across France and 600 people were arrested. A total of 78 police officers were injured.
In the southernwestern city of Toulouse, three police officers were injured by projectiles during clashes in which more than 60 cars were set alight. Twenty two people were detained, according to a local police spokesman.
A creche was set on fire during clashes in the northern city of Lille between anti-Sarkozy protesters and police, in which 46 people were detained and 61 cars torched.
Of course, I’m sure another 200 or so were set ablaze last night too, so consider this dated: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070508/wl_afp/francevoteviolence_070508154040
Posted by hegadumb at May 9, 2007 02:41 PM
This would be funny if it wasn’t so scary:
Pakistan downplays radioactive ad
Pakistan’s nuclear authority has said there is no cause for concern after it published press adverts for information on “lost” radioactive material.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6616225.stm
Posted by hegadumb at May 10, 2007 09:45 AM
I agree wholeheartedly with Eric this week, especially on Turkey and Wolfey. Ataturkism (a brand of fascism/caesarism) and Zionism both belong on the trash heap of history.
Posted by hyperbolus at May 10, 2007 07:13 PM
“Turkey a western European nation? A small part of European geography notwithstanding, Turkey is not in Europe and Turks are not Europeans.”
Is that so? So Malta is in Europe? What about Cyprus? Last time I checked both were in the Mediterrean Sea. So going by this, what the hell does geography have to be a criteria? It’s a bit of a contradiction don’t you think? Turkey is more inside Europes borders than the above two countries.
“Turks are most definitely not part of Western civilization and surely not European.”
It seems you have to get off your xenophobic and racist high horse you twit. Are you saying Turks born in European countries are not European enough? What about the 3 million Turkish “Guest” workers in Germany who are more than 5 decades old that Germany wants to kick out? What’s the difference? Or are the not Christian enough? If that’s the case, you better tell the governments in Europe who are securalist because you need to kick them out of Europe. What about the Turks living in Cyprus? Oops my bad, Europe has already taken care of that - Europe promised to lift the isloation of the Turkish-Cypriots if they voted for peace, but they broke their promise. One side of the Island gets into Europe - the side that did not vote for peace, while the other who votes for peace stays behind. How very European - think less with your brain, but more with your ass. What an infuriating post.
Posted by Erol at May 10, 2007 10:08 PM
— Eric, we appreciate your views critisizing Turkish secularists. I just like to add the fact that majority about 65 percent — of flag&Ataturk poster waving crowd you see on TV screens nowadays, is made of Alevi(Alawite), who are a sect within Shiite Islam. But unlike Shiites in Iran or Iraq, Alevites are extremly secular.They’re less than 3 percent in Turkiye. Despite that they have greater control over country’s destiny because of their increasingly being over-represented in the military, contolling almost every key post (similar to neighbouring Syria’s Army). Likewise, major TV channels and printed media is also controlled by this manority sect, which fears it might lose it’s privilliged status if, once again, Turkiye joins Europe 80 years after it was taken away by Mustafa Kemal, and his henchman Ismet Inonu, just like Enver Hoxa, who took away Albania from Europe, even the World, for more than 40 years.
On the other hand, i would like to comment—briefly —- about a few postings above, disputing Eurpeaness of the Turks.
- The term “Turk” applies to ALL inhibatatants of modern Turkiye, who are really made of—but not restricted to — Kurds, Cerkissians, Laz, Chechnians, Armenians, Albanians, Bosnians, Greeks, Ancient Hitities, Syriac Arabs and a bit —yes just a bit —- of Central Asian steppe Turkic peoples.
*Prior to 19th century, Europeans, justifiably, called and treated Turks as descendents of Byzantium & Venetians and the Ottoman Turks, accepted being so. In fact, when Mehmet-II (who spoke Greek fluently) captured Constatinople in 1453, he declared himself as the new Roman Emporer. However, with the birth of nationalism in Europe following the French revolution, a group of intellectual Turks, whom French called “Jeune Turk” (Young Turks), rejected the above-detailed Turkish/European heritage and instead claimed to be a pure Turkic race from Central Asia.
*Young Turks (i.e Ittihad and Terakii Party) eventually took over the Ottoman adminstration in mid 19th century and with that came the rapid collapse of the great empire, as a result of YoungTurk’s disasterous military adventures, along with forcible imposition of their newly-found Turkic nationalism on the above-described nationlities, which consisted of the greater Ottoman population.
*Following the establishement of the modern Turkiye, on the ashes of the great empire; YoungTurks were once again back on the job. This time they were even more agressive and cruel in imposing the alien-Turkic nationalism on Turkish muslim peoples of Anatolia, Balack Sea, and Thrace. The centuries-old Ottoman Turkish/Muslim identity and culture was, almost completly, rejected in favour of totally alien pagan/Shaman culture of Turkic Mongol hordes of Central Asia. Genghis Khan, Tamerlane, and other Mongol/Turkic warlords were praised and declared as the “great Turkish national heroes”. Many Ottoman/Turkish muslim schoolars who opposed YoungTurk’s paganism were hanged in the squares.
*Most historians agree that not more than 100 thousands Turkic tribes man (and yes they were mostly man) entered into Anatolia (a.k.a. Asia Minor) after they defeated at 1071, the Byzantium forces in Menzekirt (near today’s Turkish frontier province of Erzurum, bordering Armenia). These were highly organized and disclipined tribes man, who, as newly-convert to Islam, were even more motivated by Islam’s call for jihad conquring new lands for the faith. As such, within a few centuries,they managed to convert the majority indigenios peoples of Anatolia into Islam. Furthermore, they also had managed to impose their language (a primitive form of modern Turkish) onto their conquered subjects. However, the very weapons and the power that helped those Turkic tribes men transforming Anatolia to their way of life; failed to protect them being melted racially into a typical Anatolian through marriages in such a short period of time. That’s why it, today, would be almost impossible to find a Turk, with mongoloid features.
*Anyone who has travelled to Anatolia (plus the Black Sea region and Thrace), noticed the fact that, almost without any exceptions, inhabitatns of today’s Turkiye look like typical people of Greece, Italy and Spain overwhelmingly. Furthermore, they would also notice the fact that almost all Anatolians pysically look even more European than some countries within EU, such as Malta and Portugal. Now, no wonder why many times even Neo-Nazis have mistakenly targeted a poor Italian or Greek for a Turk living in Germany.
*Due to geo-pysical of the land of Turkiye and it’s being a battleground and cross-road for many armies and civilizations (especially Byzantium and Ottoman), one often will encounter all typical European types; i.e., brunnette/Meidterrenean, blonde, Alpian within in the same Turkish family. For example, among my family and relatives, there are many green, blue, hazel, brown-eyed people. Even the Kurds (who mainly populate Turkish areas bordering Syria, Iraq and Iran, in the east) are overwhelmingly Mediterrenean-looking people, with a large percantage of them being blue-eyed, Germanic types in the high mountains they live on.
*There are more Bosnians (about 4 millions) living in Turkiye than in Bosnia, the state, almost next to Vienna.
*Similary, in Turkiye, there are more Albanians living than in Albania and Kosova combined.
*Likewise there are about 15 million ethnic Chechnians, Georgians and Tatars living in Turkey. Most of them were driven from their lands by their Christian neighbours following the gradual collapse of the Ottoman Empire.
*Ottoman Empire started in Europe and ended in Europe. It was a Balkan phonemonen. In fact much of today’s southern Europe came under Ottoman/Turkish control after the battle of Kosovo in 1391 — that’s more than a half a century before Istanbul (Constantinople) was conquered by this gradually-emerging new European-Muslim nation. In Sultan Murat’s army conquring Serbia, there were still many Greek-speaking, Orthodox Christian Yenicheries (Janicharries)
*Even more interestingly, much of what’s modern Turkey today was conquered by the Ottomans hundreds of years later after the Balkans’ conquest (Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania, Macedonia, etc). For example, the Greek/Pontus, and Laz-ruled Black Sea region of modern Turkey was conquered only in 1571. The Kurdish and Armenian populated Eastern regions of Anatolia were also later conquered in the late 1500s.
*Despite their conversion to Islam, thus being Turkified, in the Black Sea region (especially in Trabzon) today thousands of people still speak Greek in their homes and in their coastal villages. Here in Toronto, Canada i have such a friend who’s father is an imam and yet he often speaks perfect Greek with Danforth Greeks, who are outraged to hear somebody claiming an ethnic Greek identity, yet prouds to be a muslim and Turk at the same time :)
- A few years ago a genetical survey was done by the Turkish and Greek researchers conducted in Turkiye and Greece. It found that both Greeks and Turks have same genetical backgrounds. But those scientific findings were condenmned by both Greek and Turkish nationalists. Also, i should indicate Greek and Turkish cuisine is exactly the same. So much so, even, for the most part, most dishes have the same food name.
*Historically speaking, Hungarians have many similarities with the Turks. For one thing, Hungary was also invaded by the Central Asian peoples. It was invaded by Attila, the Hun, a 5th century Mongol warlord. The mongols managed to impose their language (same grammer as Turkish) on the local Magyars before they were melted racially into greater Hungarian population. As a result of this ancient Mongol factor, modern Hungarians speak a non-european language, despite their pyhsically being no different than their central european neighbours. Yet, unlike Turks, Hungarians are accepted as Europeans because of their being Christian.
*Now, after reading all these facts i have written so far, i strongly challange those who enjoy questioning the European origins of Turks at every opportunity —especially this chris thing (Re:May 7, 2007 11:23 PM post) to:
a— either prove me wrong cathegorigically by providing supporting facts for every statments, like i did, instead of just keep posting baseless statements saying “Turks aren’t Europeans”. Especially explain to me how are you going to explain the presence of millions of ethnically European (Bosnians, Albanians, Chechnians, Muslim Greeks/Pontous) living in a country, which you repeatedly claim that it’s not European!
b— or just keep quiet and try to appreciate the fact there’s a indeed a great European muslim nation called Turkiye and it will eventually re-join Europe.
c— alternatively, just admit the fact that you’re just a bigot, a christian fanatic, thus don’t accept Turkiye as a European nation because it is NOT Christian.
* To avoid any misunderstaing, I feel the need to indicate that i have nothing against the great Central Asian peoples and Mongolians. In fact i’m proud to share a langueage, similiar to their’s. Turkish, as a Turkic, Ural/Altaic langueage is a beautiful-sounding language. Certainly much better-sounding than French or German. I indeed feel privillaged to speak such a rich mathemathical and logical grammer.
*Likewise, i’m in no way against Alevis. Alevis are also our Turkish/Muslim brothers and sisters.I condemn the pogroms against them by Sunni mobs of Anatolia. I just matter of factly stated what i personally have heard many times and often reported by the media about Alevi’s role in the military opression in Turkiye.
*Similarly, i feel privillaged to be a muslim—even if that means because of a few Central Asian horse man, who convinced my ancestors to convert (just like the Europeans, were convinced by a few poor Middle Eastern missionaries to become Christian). Islam is a great religion, and a truly monotheist religion, which has contributed to civilization’s development —including Western Civilization’s development, through the science, mathematic, medicine, arts, agriculture. And it will regain its glorios past to enlighten humanity despite a few fanatics’ reactionary jihad against anyone who disagree with their interpretion of Islam.
- Tragically, as long as the modern Turkish state continue to brainwash its people with baseless theories of Young Turks that modern Turks originated in Central Asia, it will help fanatics in EU, who openly reject Turkiye’s application, based on this so-called Central Asian factor — when in reality it’s Islam, which they, secretly, admit that blocks Turkish membership to EU.
Posted by Neo-Ottoman at May 14, 2007 09:34 AM
USA + Britain + Israel = Axis of Evil
Posted by Rabinovitz at May 23, 2007 09:04 AM
Well put Neo-Ottoman!
Posted by Ilker at May 31, 2007 08:53 AM